I've seen this question asked a couple of times, and here's my answer: In their dream world the Yankees would love to add another pitcher. But they flat out refuse to overpay for one, especially considering luxury tax ramifications (see below). When I asked Brian Cashman yesterday about pursuing another starter, here's what he said: "If I have the opportunity to make a move that makes sense, I’m not afraid to do that ... I’ll just get aggressive when something makes sense to me."
Here's where we stand: The Yankees would love to take Andy Pettitte back, but don't get your hopes up. That's still a longshot behind his other two options, returning to Houston and retiring. Roger Clemens is even more of a longshot. Meanwhile the Yankees remain in contact with the agents for Ted Lilly, Gil Meche and Miguel Batista, among others, but I'd be very surprised if they join the spending spree. They're more likely to act if there is a recurrence of the Johnny Damon situation from a year ago, where they can land somebody at a price they're comfortable with.
Comments (28)
Jim B: We both know Cash is a sly one and he said he was comfortable with his outfield just about all of last winter and then we woke up one morning and Johnny Damon was under the tree (as you pointed out above).
I just cannot believe they are comfortable with their rotation as it stands today. Perhaps they will try to bide their time and see if a team falls out of contention early next season and then make a move. If Cash were to look me in the eye and say he would be as comfortable with his current rotation on April 2nd and September 2nd I'd call him a liar.
I definitely see your point, and I think it's probably likely they get someone else. I just don't see it being Meche or Lilly at $40 million. And I don't see Clemens coming here. And while they'd love to get Pettitte, I think he's going to choose Houston or retire. So now we're left with trades. That may be the more likely route at this point, unless maybe they could get Batista or Padilla (or Meche or Lilly, for that matter) cheaper than the going rate (very unlikely).
Technically, with the offense we have, I think we have enough now to make it to the playoffs. But, unless we get some better pitching, we are doomed for another early exit in the post season. What's the rotation: Wang, Mussina, Johnson ???, Igawa ?, and Pavano? Maybe that offense is NOT enough.
Jim B: Exactly my thinking. I think Cash will pull a surprise trade and I understand why he's cautious about 4yrs/$40M for Lilly and company.
Thanks...this is great conversation, all we need is beer!
The word is that Pettitte's wife hates NY, so forget about it. I still feel that Cashman is going to make a trade for a frontline pitcher, and I think it will be Willis unless they have to give up Hughes. Hughes will probably be called up during the summer, and from what I've read about him, he will be great. Lilly and Meche are not worth the asking price. I also feel that Phillips won't be starting at first. and I would like to see a better utility player than Cairo, who has lost it the last 2 years. Don't be surprised if Barajas signs as a backup because his reputation took a hit after backing out of the Toronto contract. If Clemens signs with the Red Sox, he will be deservedly purged from the Yankee archives.
Well How do you view Tim Hudson ?? word is Braves considering trading him.
or do you trade with the white sox for one of their starters ? i would 'nt mind giving javier another chance if the price is cheap
Tim Hudsons Stats and he is 31 yrs old
1999 Oak 21 21 1 0 136.1 121 56 49 8 62 132 11 2 0 0 -- 3.24
2000 Oak 32 32 2 2 202.1 169 100 93 24 82 169 20 6 0 0 -- 4.14
2001 Oak 35 35 3 0 235.0 216 100 88 20 71 181 18 9 0 0 -- 3.37
2002 Oak 34 34 4 2 238.1 237 87 79 19 62 152 15 9 0 0 -- 2.98
2003 Oak 34 34 3 2 240.0 197 84 72 15 61 162 16 7 0 0 -- 2.70
2004 Oak 27 27 3 2 188.2 194 82 74 8 44 103 12 6 0 0 -- 3.53
2005 Atl 29 29 2 0 192.0 194 79 75 20 65 115 14 9 0 0 -- 3.52
2006 Atl 35 35 2 1 218.1 235 129 118 25 79 141 13 12 0 0 -- 4.86
Total -- 247 247 20 9 1651.0 1563 717 648 139 526 1155 119
I agree with Cashman on not overpaying for a average pitcher.
Unless we can sign someone like Pettite to a one or two year deal I feel as if we should bring up some guys and give them a shot. Hughes is not quite ready but why not give guys like Clippard, Kontos,Mcallister, Kennedey, Horne, Steven White a chance. I do not follow very closely on what is going on down there but we must have some guys that are ready for a shot in the bigs.
You never really know til they get a chance.
McCarthy: I think the big problem with infusing the youngsters now is the Yanks want to win now, they can't go through growing pains like most teams, it won't be tolerated by George or the fans. That's why I was surprised when they signed Igawa for a no. 5 guy, that spot is perfect to develop a youngster. Maybe they plan on Igawa for no. 4 and the youngster can take Pavano's five spot WHEN he gets hurt.
After the Pavano and Wright contracts I doubt Cashman will hand out another big contract to a middle of the road pitcher - though there are rumors surrounding Yankee interest in Vincente Padilla.
If Igawa signs for 4 years and $16 mil his total financial outlay will be similar to what Lilly or Meche would have commanded, and Igawa is younger and has a better track record (in Japan of course)
I think Cashman is at best unsure on Pavano and Johnson being able to help. Assuming neither is ready to start the season I think we'll see: Wang, Mussina, Igawa, Proctor/Karstens/Rasner filling the 4-5 spots (remember early in the season you don't always need a 5th starter) in the mean time Hughes will get regular work in AAA and when Memorial Day rolls around he'll be recalled - but the Yankees will be very very careful with him and keep his innings close to where they were this past season at AA. Guys like Humberto Sanchez, Tyler Clippard, Steven White, Jeff Marquez will all contribute along the way.
Some other names to keep in the back of your mind. Joba Chamberlain, Chris Garcia. Chamberlain is a big kid from Nebraska who dominated Hawaiian League play this fall with a plus fastball and Garcia is being predicted by some at BaseballAmerica to have as much potential as Hughes. He'll open the year at AA and could be a September call up.
Holy crap Matt enough with the cutting and pasting already!
Matt, there is no way, absolutely NONE that I would ever entertain making that offer for Buhrle. You're talking about giving up 3 prospects and 2 guys who have important roles on our ML roster for a pitcher on the verge of free agency? And had a horrible season last year to boot.
On top of that, Duncan would do nothing for Williams as Josh Fields, a third baseman, is considered one of the better prospects in the game.
Two things: Cashman is not finished with roster moves. At least 1 starting pitcher (protection that RJ's back operation is OK, and Kei Igawa can pitch in MLB. Pavano is a non-question.) Another lefty in the pen, Ron Villone or otherwise. A backup catcher for Posada. A 1st base / utility guy unless it's felt that Andy Phillips can do it. If Philip Hughes or Humberto Sanchez had an unbelievable spring, so much to the better.
I'm not sold on Boston's staff yet. Schilling doesn't "own" us like he use to, Beckett give up too many HRs and we can get to him, who knows about Matsuzaka, can Papelbon handle 180 - 200 innings, and Wakefield doesn't have Mirabelli anymore.
Chip
Any clue why Jeter feels the way he does about A-Rod? Could it have anything to do with the CRAP A-Rod said about him in a magazine article before he came to the Yanks? You know, the crap similar to Reggie's "I'm the straw that stirs the drink".
If anyone needs to mend fences and patch up the relationship, I believe the ball is in Mr. Rodriquez's corner. It's amazing how all you guys are so unaware of why this dynamic is the way it is and who's fault it is.
You guys all make valid points. So I will throw in my opinion.
The Young Ones...
If I were Cashman, I would not trade ANY young stars i.e. (Hughes, Clippard, Sanchez) for Dontrelle. I personally think that Hughes is the only one that seems ready to go in the pros by The All-Star Break, everyone else should stay down in AAA.
The Aging, Injury-Prone, Professionals...
You're gonna hear it from me. Sign Igawa and hopefully Lily drives down his asking price from 4/$40 to something that makes him more affordable. The rotation would consist of Wang (who should only get better), Moose (who can still pitch at 38), Johnson (flirts with greatness), Igawa/Lily in the fourth hole (a seasoned vet and decent lookin' lefty from Japan) and Pavano (who I read is gonna come back with good stuff this year) God forbid any one of those guys goes down, you still have 5 starters plus Rasner and Karstens to anchor the spot and Proctor too.
I mean damn, if the Yankees offense can provide enough runs for everyone, there is no need to sign any high priced players. Forget Zito and Schmidt and Hudson and Willis, i think the Yankees are going in the right direction. AND HONESTLY it wouldnt hurt if they had an "off-year" to get younger and stronger. Their future is already set and their names on Wang/Hughes/Sanchez/Clippard..end of story...
Rick K., I remember that article, it was the same Jeter comment we hear a lot, that he's not all that because he plays with a lot of all stars and NY is a hype machine yada yada yada. If this season did anything I hope that it brought ARod back from Fantasy Island and he truly sees the value of Derek and respects him more for it. And gets a little humility, most people are put off by his smug attitude and scripted behavior. But Jeet would have to be open to it. How many times can you apologize before it's beating a dead horse? I’m sure ARod has tried since he likes to be liked. Jeet has the right to hold the grudge but I doubt he'd do that to the detriment of the team. The ARod saga is half media driven and half hater driven. Maybe 1/16 of it is true.
my money is still on a pitching oriented trade with florida, not necessarily for wilis. the yanks will try to make an impact move, if only due to the psychological pressure being put on cashman by epstein. it's clear that the two are very competitive and that cashman is threatened by the perception of epstein as a wiz kid. in recent years it has seemed that the red sox always have a better winter, getting all the people they want (it didn't always work out for them during the actual season), sometimes at the expense of the yankees (schilling), who had to resort to panic moves.
the japanese bidding victory has turned on the heat on cashamn and he will feel obligated to somehow dazzle and amaze.
and for those of you who aren't impressed with the sox rotation, take a peek at the yankees'...
My feeling is Jeter just does not tolerate people who either are or who he perceives to be mentally weak. I think it irks a guy like Jeter, who has had to work very hard to get to where he is, to see a guy like Alex with a ton of natural ability but lets the little things bug him to the point where he can't perform. The article was years ago, it's time for both of them to stop being stubborn and get over it. They were supposedley childhood friends so they just need to put it behind them and move on, for the good of the team. I can see the resolution being really simple and it will take a little effort on both their parts. I've even scripted a little something:
Alex: "Hey Jeet, I was a real a**hole a couple years ago when I said that crap. I think I was just jealous. It really didn't come out right, but I just wanted to say I'm sorry.
Jeter: "That's okay dude. Let's go win a championship or three". (end with man hug-you know where you start by shaking hands and bump chests...all the kids are doing it).
This reminds me of the Thurman-Reggie fights. It divided my parents. My father was a staunch Thurman guy and my mom was all about Reggie. She even put a poster of him in our living room, which my dad tore up.
Its completely understandable that Cashmen isn't going to over pay for anyone in this insane market; however, has anyone considered Mulder? Everything I've read says he's very healthy now and while there is the downside of his injury potential; can't hurt to give him a shot especially considering he has the potential to be a top of the rotation starter and wouldn't cost much money. Also to consider is in theory with his signing it would give the Yankees 6 potential starters along with the young guys who made really good showings last year.
OYF & Jim A
Great comments on the Jeter - A-Rod dynamic.
OYF - I don't think any of the people that don't watch him everyday realize just how great Jeter is. He was undisputedly the MVP of 2006. And, like you said, now that A-Rod has played with him, I'm sure he sees that he was wrong in his magazine comments.
I feel, like Jim suggests, that A-Rod needs to initiate a PUBLIC apology or retraction of his previous comments. Then Jeter can reciprocate. And, I also think many fans and some media should quit blaming Jeter for the sour dynamic when it is actually A-Rod's fault. I don't recall ever hearing A-Rod make a PUBLIC apology?
Jim A - Great observation on Jeter's makeup. He is truly a gamer and mentally tough. And, like me, I'll bet Jeter just doesn't see A-Rod making that head first dive into the stands for a foul pop.
During the post season, I heard him say that "you can't be afraid to fail". I think that comment was a round-a-bout message for A-Rod. I think the "captain" was trying to give his teammate some valuable insight on how to approach the playoffs, to lighten up and just play.
Great story on your parents. I love it!
Mann all of base ball was hating on Jeter like that it just hurted because they (arod - Jeter) was supposed to be boys. But lets look at the real , can it be possible that Jeter himself was slighty jealous when arod came because he was talented, good looking, younger meaning jeter is not the "baby" of the yankees , and considered the next best thing automatic insert into Yankee greats with the number to back it 400 plus homers chance to be the all time leader and maybe do it in a yankee uniform??? when i play these things are in effect, trust me they was cool as long as Arod was on another team. had arod just played ball , madison avenue would been all over him the latin community hear in NY would been all over him, He hanging out with JAy Z and rappers which Jeter adores but do not get embraced by them. Arod is married so he is not aout there sleeping with everything, these things take effect when you have two marquee stars of the youthful age, Some one mentioned SOriano to me and I said SOri is different jeter helped him come up and mature DOuble play combo so Sori has that respect for Jeter as a SUperior role model even as his numbers best Jeter.
Now on Jeters defence,
No he does not have SUPERIOR number but he has good numbers plus the DRIVEN force to see how he handles his business everyday, Game approach, pressure , DELIVERY!!!! It probally shooked AROD seeing Jeter Handle His business , taking a Walk stealing that base, hit the clutch HR, hit that double make the play in the hole , be on the top of steps by the dugout cheering everyone one , basically being the PULSE of the yankees that too me is GREAAAAAT!!!!!!!!!
mulder is going to get a good deal somewhere. he wont be a jon lieber type
It's been said by a lot of guys on a lot of teams that when they look at the Yankees on paper they don't understand what Jeter means to them. Then they either come and play for the Yanks or they talk to guys who play for the Yanks and you hear them say that they can't describe it, but it's no doubt at all that Jeter is the heartbeat of that team.
I still am not sure it's time to cut bait on A-Rod as I hold out hope that he can succeed in NY, but time is running out. I really do think it will only take a little success for him to "get out of his own head" and get going in October. I think Giambi's strategy, given more time, would have paid off- quit coddling him , kick him in the *ss and get going. It worked for Giambi, so he should know.
Jim A
I agree with your comments on A-Rod. I too like the Giambi kick in the *ss method. If they have it in them, true gamers will usually respond to that method. They will thrive on the challenge, not shrink from it!
Maybe that is what Torre was trying to do by dropping him down in the order? Challenge his pride and see if it would jump start him.
Remember when the Yanks asked Giambi to go down to AAA for awhile and work on his swing? He got the message and rose to the challenge. That is when he came out ripping.
Maybe they should ask A-Rod to go down to AAA for awhile like they did to Giambi?
Rick
That's exactly what I meant when I said it worked for Giambi. I don't think Giambi really understood the gravity of his problem until JT and Cash asked him to go to the minors. Not that I think he wasn't trying, but I think he figured he had all the time he would need to work it out at the major league level and that changed real quick with one conversation.
JT should answer the "why did you drop A-Rod to 8th" question like this, the next time it is asked "I dropped him to 8th because he was hitting like sh*t" Could anyone argue with him? It's pretty funny that Sheff was the only one who seemed to have a problem with it publicly, saying it hurt and embarrassed A-Rod. If a batting avg. of .093 doesn't hurt and embarrass him, than batting eigth shouldn't either.
Joe needs to start right from spring training this year and tell Alex to get it straight. I'd make Jeter and A-Rod stay in the same room on road trips if I had to. Maybe they could work out their issues that way.
Jim A
I agree. Right off the bat, JT needs to tell A-Rod that he is just one of the boys and this is the way it's going to be.
Short series playoffs are no place to be letting people work out of their struggles. When you're hitting .093, you should be at the bottom of the order, or on the bench. And, that goes for any of them.
All players have hot streaks and cold streaks during a season. Once the playoffs arrive, we can't afford to bat anybody at the top of the order that is in a cold streak. It's called making adjustments. In a short series, you gotta do what you gotta do to move on.
I don't know about the rooming thing. Nowadays, they probably all have their own suites. I think A-Rod needs to make some type of PUBLIC apology or recognition that he was wrong about what he said. Then, if Jeter doesn't warm up, it's on him.
It is obvious we still badly need SP. The rotation looks like this for opening day: Wang, Mussina, Johnson, Igawa, and Pavano. Very scary!
And, while Cashman sits around waiting for Pettite's wife to make a decision (best of luck), the remaining options are beginning to disappear.
Lilly wants to come back here very badly. You can hear it in his agents comments. I'll bet he would even take a little less to come back to the Yanks if BC would just make some type of effort to talk with his agent.
And, a 4 year deal for $38 mil is not out of line at all in today's market. Like Mussina said, they gave $40 mil to Pavano and he should be worth more than that. So, they gave Moose $11.5 mil for his 15 wins, the same 15 Lilly had last year.
Others factors to look at: Technically, Lilly could ask for $11.5 mil just like Moose got for his 15 Wins. So, $9.5 mil is not that unreasonable, especially looking at what Pavano has given us!
And, Lilly is a PROVEN pitcher in the AL EAST for Toronto. They play the Yanks and Red Sox 19 times each. It's much harder to compile 15 wins in the AL East than some other division or the NL.
Waiting on Pettite is a big mistake. I love the guy, but his best years are behind him and he doesn't even have the desire to pitch anymore. Is that what we really want? Just like Damon, I say make a decent offer to Lilly and put the ball in his court. If he really wants to come home, he will. If he wants the very last dollar, then let him go somewhere else. But, don't just let him go without even talking to his agent.
And, for those wanting a bigger fish, what is so bad about having Lilly AND a big fish such as Willis? Imagine a rotation of Wang, Willis, Mussina, Lilly, and Johnson? Much better than what I listed above.
Then in 2008, Johnson would be replaced by Hughes so we would have: Wang, Willis, Mussina, Lilly, and Hughes. I say make a pitch to Lilly and put the ball in his corner! You can never have enough SP.