On the Yankees beat

Try to pry Bobby Abreu from the Phillies in a salary dump sort of deal. replaces Aaron Guiel or Bubba Crosby in the roster... once Matsui comes back he replaces the other one.

It's the most logical and reasonable move for the Yankees both short and long term, Abreu is hardly more expensive then Sheffield / Carlos Lee / Soriano next year. he is well worth 15M/16M for two years.

It's also the only real deal the Yankees may pull off without serious farm talent sacrifices, due to Abreu's large contract and NTC.

OK, suppose the Yanks trade a few prospects for Abreu. Then when Matsui comes back who sits? Abreu? Melky? Damon? Matsui?

Four every day players, 3 positions. And the prospects given up are gone. What is wrong with this plan?

Who should sit? Bernie.

Matsui is best suited to be a DH anyway. He is below average defensively.

"Matsui is more suited to be a DH anyway"

Ummm, assuming he is below average on defense, what do we then do with Giambi?

Abreu is a worthless deal, as is Soriano. Neither is going to happen and it doesn't address our need, which is a 4 or 5 pitcher.

Giambi would have to play 1B. He certainly provides many more runs offensively than he takes away defensively.

1B is primarily an offensive position. That's why it's becoming intolerable to carry Phillips's bat, despite his superior defense.

Don't worry, Matsui will almost always play the OF for fear of offending him.

according to another newspaper, the yankees have picked up sal fasano, which means bye bye to stinnett. but if i was gonna go with an upgrade on this team, i believe that the one that makes most sense is for starting pitching. sidney ponson is not the answer, and jaret wright is wearing the bullpen out! the market is thin at the moment for SP's. however i still think the yankees can get something for shawn chacon, sure it wont be a lights out pitcher, but something...anything might be useful. the pirates have some decent bullpen guys, and right now the brewers are struggling with guys like ben sheets not playing well. if the yankees were to go after an outfielder, i would rather prefer a guy like shawn green. he's a good hitter, makes contact, and is much younger than abreu.

Shawn Green will be 34 in November.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5179

Abreu turned 32 in March.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5698

Matsui is below average? In what alternate universe?

Matsui is a good fielder with an average arm.

Giambi is a serious liability at 1st base.

The point is, getting Abreu creates a logjam somewhere. In the Matsui is a DH theory at DH since Giambi's first base glove should be burned. Otherwise it creates a logjam for starting outfielders; someone is unhappy and resources were wasted to get someone unneeded.

Melky seems to get better every game as he learns more aspects of offense and defense.

The need here is pitching, pitching, pitching, and pitching.

Can anyone think of a game that we lost due to Giambi's poor defense?

Scott your facts are all over the place...and wrong.
Sheets hasn't not played well, he has been hurt and on the DL. As Rich pointed out Green is older than Abreu.
I could give the Yanks a $3 whore for Cacon...that's "something" as you stated. He not worth much more and people know this

Dave...even if no one remembers particular game he cost the Yanks, he is still horrendous in the field. Pop flys to him and when he needs to throw somewhere always has me reaching to the Alta-Seltzer..keep him on the bike and in the cage when not hitting.

Matsui is below average defensively in the universe where reality exists.

His UZR has been negative every year because his range isn't good.

His defense has declined every year since 2003.

1B defense pales in comparison to OF defense.

btw, There is likely no quality pitching that can be acquired at a reasonable price.

That's why they have to add a bat, like Abreu.

If the rumors are correct and we can get Betemit from Atlanta for Proctor, we should jump on that immediately. This would allow us to put Cano in a package for Soriano. Betemit can also play SS and 3rd, as the A-Rod trade talk will certainly run through the 31st well into the off-season. Move Proctor while he is pitching well, and get a fill-in like Roberto Hernandez to fill the breach. Betemit is an outstanding young player getting better everyday, much like Melky.

32 years old, 34 years old, whatever, the last thing the Yanks need is another big money player that's going to age the team. I saw a Tom Verducci article in SI recently that showed how the last few World Series have been won by teams with all their key hitters between the ages of 24-32. I wish I could find it now, but the point is, the Yanks should stay away from Abreau.
They're not getting any stud pitching--look at any contending team besides maybe the Twins, White Sox, and Angels, they all need another starter. With other big money teams like the Mets and Red Sox in the hunt for pitching, and more blue chippers to trade, the chances are slim for a worthwhile starter anyway.
I think the Yanks should focus on finding middle relief and hope the two big bats in the line-up...Giambi and A-Rod...get hot and carry the team. Both can do it.

What "blue chippers" do the Red Sox have to trade?

No one can say "If we had Sori we'd win it all." He isn't the missing piece here.
So no, trading Cano and others for him now makes no sense. Let someone else overpay for his 2-month services and have NYY try to get him in the off-season when it will only cost $$$.
THEN trade Cano for a #2 SP.

C: Jorge Posada
C: Kelly Stinnett (needs upgrade in backup)
1B/DH: Jason Giambi
1B: Andy Phillips
2B: Miguel Cairo
SS: Derek Jeter
3B: Alex Rodriguez
INF: Nick Green
LF: Melky Cabrera
CF: Johnny Damon
RF: Bernie Williams (needs upgrade) put bernie back at dh
RF: Aaron Guiel (upgrade needed...hes been ok but we could do better)
OF: Bubba Crosby( good defense...bad O)
SP: Randy Johnson
SP: Mike Mussina
SP: Chien-Ming Wang
SP: Jaret Wright(should be the 5th starter)
SP: Sidney Ponson(need better)
RP: Mariano Rivera (BEST EVER!)
RP: Kyle Farnsworth( need upgrade)
RP: Scott Proctor
RP: Ron Villone
RP: Mike Myers
RP: T.J. Beam
RP: Shawn Chacon(get rid of him)

DL: Robinson Cano (expected back in two weeks)
DL: Hideki Matsui (expected September)
DL: Gary Sheffield (expected September)
DL: Octavio Dotel (too hard to tell)
DL: Carl Pavano (next season)WHO IS CARL PAVANO?
DL: Tanyon Sturtze (done for year)
DL: Darrell Rasner (doesn't matter)

I base my response on the hitting is good at the present momment. And will get better in a month. I believe that we will still be in the hunt.

Stinnett need an upgrade here. He can receive but can't hit, throw or run. Ponson should take Chacon's place as Chacon is released or accepts minor league assignment. Move Wright to 5 starter. Mike Myers is too much of a luxury to wait around for the special momment to pitch to a lefty bring up Smith for relief or 4th starter position if no trades. Bernie Williams exclusive DH when resting our outfielders. Crosby and Guiel are doing fine in the OF for now. There defensive play is helping keep runners from stretching to an extra base. Crosby needs to be more aggressive at the plate. He swings at most pitches with the possibility Joe Torre will not play if he fails to produce with every at bat. I do not feel any trades for Soriano or Abreu are in our best interests right now. We need pitching and more pitching.

To give another opinion to Giambi's first baes play. He's OK with teams who do not play small ball but the present champs the white sox play it all and I can remember Giambi's inability to throw to the plate against the Angels. This opened up the opportunities for a loss in the playoffs.

Matsui will not function teamwise as our DH. We are gathering older players with limited flexibility for positions. Adding Abreu is worst then adding Soriano which I believe neither move is beneficial for the team now or in the future. We can score 10 runs a game but have the potential to give up 10 or more.

Trade Cano? Why would you trade a guy who is hitting over .300 and can be a mainstay at 2B for the next decade?

Interesting comments. I wouldn't make any deals for an outfielder or any other position player. There's nothing out there that would be a significant upgrade for the team. It isn't Abreu as I think he's overrated. Shaun Green is a good player, but what will the Yanks have to give the D'Backs in return? More young talent (top talent, that is) from the system? I don't think so. I agree with someone's comments that Giambi and A-Rod need to get hot and break out of their slumps. If they can, that's a ton of fire power at our disposal. Getting another bat is stupid cause we have the bats.
As far as the pitching goes, the Yanks aren't that bad off compared to most teams. Johnson, Moose and Wang as our top 3 isn't too shabby!! We need a 4 and 5 but, other than Detroit, who doesn't? Minnesota has a great 1:2 punch in Santana and Lariano, and Ratke is pitching good, but even they don't have a 4,5 that's worth anything. After Schilling and Beckett, Boston doesn't have much in starters. Sure, Lester is doing ok for now, but he's not better than Wang! Wells can help them, but how much does he have left in the tank? They threw a AA pitcher at Seattle on Saturday! They're hurtin'!
Maybe an option for us as another starter is Proctor. His stuff has been better this year and he did start a game for us last year which he won. I don't think that he'd break down because he'd pitch every 5th day and not everyday as a reliever. We'd need to get some help for the pen cause Farnsworth, Villone and Meyers will need it. Maybe Beam can do the job? Maybe we just put Wright there and tell him to let it fly for an inning or 2. That way he wouldn't have to pace himself and he can just throw. Maybe I'm too much of an optimist.
Look everyone: we're 2 1/2 out of 1st and 2 out in the wildcard race. We've been decimated by injuries and the Red Sox were real hot, yet here we are.
We don't need to make any "panic" moves. There have been too many of those in the last few years.

One other thought.

Why would any of you want Soriano back? Did you all forget how many times he struck out in key situations during the 2003 post season? Did you all forget how many times opposing pitchers got him out with that down and away bender? Do any of you think that he's a "changed man"?
I didn't and I don't!

Cano is our 2nd baseman, period! How can anyone think of trading this guy and for what? What's out there that you'd give this guy away? Cano has gotten better this year and he was in the running for Rookie of the year last year.
Come on!

The Yanks don't need another outfielder. It's going to be hard enough to find playing time for everyone once Matsui and/or Sheff come back. Remember 2000 when Torre had to mix Canseco, Hill, Polonia, Justice, Spencer, Bernie, and Paulie in the lineup? It was a mess. Meanwhile, Knoblauch was throwing the ball all over the place and we had to keep him in the lineup because we had 10 outfielders and no back up infielders.

What we need is starting pitching. A #4 and a #5. We're not going to get any of the top tier pitchers (Zito, Smoltz...) because their teams are still in the hunt. We're going to have to settle for something less - Ramon Ortiz, Greg Maddux, Odalis Perez, someone like that.

We need a starting pitcher much more then an outfielder...

come on. if they got rid of cano, it would be one of the worst decisions ever, but steindoosher likes doing stuff like that so i wouldn't doubt it. ponson sucks. chacon sucks. our bullpen is fine, farnsworth and proctor are throwing cheese and people are hitting them very well, especially proctor. i dont know why we are looking for an outfielder, melky is playing savage all around baseball right now and once the postseason rolls around matsui and sheff will be back giving us 4 starting caliber outfielders with damon. i would assume this means sheff or matsui will dh and giambino will play first. as for the trade talks about arod, i have a much better plan. instead of trading him, which there not doing, send him down to single A and see if he can field the ball there. maybe he will also strike out less than 3 times a game. we need a savage to fill in a spot in the rotation, like a zito or a smoltz, and judging by the past decade of management decisions we will get smoltz because he is older and sign him to a 20 year contract worth 1 billion a year. anyway this is what i think our batting order should look like come postseason:
CF: Damon
SS: Jeter
1B: Giambi
RF: Sheff
3B: Arod
C: Posada
LF: Melky
DH: Matsui
2B: Cano

starting rotation:
1. Moose
2. RJ
3. Zito(not gonna happen but i can dream)
4. Wang
5. Wright

bullpen:
exactly the same except get TJ Beam out of there he throws like a puss. hopefully dotel is ready.

I have would try and find another starting pitcher. We never know what we are going to get from Wright and the 5th spot in the rotation is a disaster.

Then I would try to find another 1B to take Phillips place. The lack of offense there is killing us. I like Giambi at DH and would try and get either Doug Mientkiewicz from KC or Craig Wilson or Sean Casey from Pitt. All would be a major upgrade over Phillips and should be available at a reasonable cost.

Guiel and Melky should be able to hold down the fort in the OF until Matsui and/or Sheffield get back.

All you posters that are crying for a starting pitcher need to look at just what is available. There are no decent starting pitchers on the market. If there is, I'm sure "Cash" would appreciate it, if you would let him know. As for Cano, he is doing a "bang-up" job for us on the DL. Play for today. If we can get Betemit and Soriano, and sign Soriano long term before the deal is final, we should do it.

"Trade Cano? Why would you trade a guy who is hitting over .300 and can be a mainstay at 2B for the next decade?"
Posted by: jb

Answer: because he's not 40 years old, he doesn't have a $15 million/yr salary and because he's not on another team.

You see, the Yankees and their idiot fans always seem to be infatuated want other people's players.

Mientkiewicz! He's one of the worst offensive players in the league. No way he gets a spot in the line-up. Bring him in and Giambi's forced to start at first and then get pulled after the 7th. Philips has made enough defensive plays to warrant his spot, he's just too much of a streaky hitter right now. I agree with whoever said our best bet is to pick up a 2nd-tier starter if one's even available, but I think the most likely place to make headway is to add some middle relief.

As for anyone that wants to trade Cano for Soriano.

1) Soriano will sign with the Yankees as a free agent if he wants to.
2) I bet you also voted for trading Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps.
3) Remember Smalls and Chacon from last year before you decide that there is no pitching out there

"Play for today"?!? Do you remember 1989, or 1991, or 2002, when all we did was pick up retreads on their last legs? The championship Yankees were built on a young core. Cano has to stay. Melky has to stay. Wang has to stay. these guys will have rings in 4 or 5 years.

Also, everyone keeps assuming Matsui and Shef in September. I love these guys, but I seriously doubt that both (or even one) of them will be in prime shape - physically, timing, or mentally. They are good, but I see guys who will probably contribute marginally.

I'm not saying to make a trade. I'm just saying they won't be saviors. This team will have to be scrappy.

The Proctor-starter solution is interesting, but I agree that maybe the best trade to make would be to find good middle relief. This way, you can trot out Ponson or Wright or Chacon and play the #4 & 5 crapshoot. Some days: 6 solid innings; some days: out in 2. Then we can bring in the reliever(s) we picked up. I guess I'm saying the relief talent out there in trade-land is better than the starter talent.

"Then I would try to find another 1B to take Phillips place. The lack of offense there is killing us. I like Giambi at DH and would try and get either Doug Mientkiewicz from KC or Craig Wilson or Sean Casey from Pitt. All would be a major upgrade over Phillips and should be available at a reasonable cost."
Posted by: Mike G

Are you kidding me?
How is Andy killing us when we are only 2.5 games back of first place and tied for the lead in the WC?
Without him and Cabrera playing solidly since they've been here, the Yankees wouldn't even be where they are now.
Phillips is struggling with a batting average in the .240's, but what is your mighty Giambi batting?
.252!

Oh yeah, and I'm sure with the "great" Mientkiewicz, Wilson or Casey, we'd be 15 games in first place by now. :roll eyes:

Oh yeah, and I'm sure those guys are doing the Royals and Pirates a lot of good right now.

how can you people say we need to go after soriano. just a heads up, we had him, and when it mattered he choked. unfortunately what you do during the regular season means nothing when you get to the postseason ie arod. soriano struck out like it was nobody's business in the last postseason he played with the yanks. as for no decent starting pitchers on the market "mike g" why dont you take your head out of your ass. is barry zito not decent. hes something like 25-3 when he gets more than 2 runs of support in his last however many starts. thats ridiculous. plus a lefty wouldnt hurt in our starting ro, especially if we plan on beating the red sox, and ortiz who continuously bends us over and has his way with us. and what is betemit going to play? 3rd? are we gonna bench arod? while i wouldnt mind that at all, the management paying him 15 mil a year in addition to the 10 he is getting from the rangers might have a problem. cano is going to be back soon, so why would we put him at second. we doing fairly well with none of our starting outfield most of the time and our second basemen out as well, so why go out and get more field players. even if we did get a field player, targetting a soriano or abreu is outrageous. we already have the worst salary ever, why worsen it only to put more talent on the bench.

If the Yankees trade Proctor, then they are the most idiotic organization in the sports world.
He's their only other reliable reliever besides Mariano.
You don't trade what little good you have, you trade for more of it.
Is everybody smoking crack or what?

"Can anyone think of a game that we lost due to Giambi's poor defense?"
Posted by: Dave

Just about every game that he plays in that we end up losing. Sometimes his poor defense doesn't necessarily show up as errors.
He just doesn't get to a lot of balls hit for base hits that Andy Phillips would normally get to and suck up like a vacuum.

"how can you people say we need to go after soriano. just a heads up, we had him, and when it mattered he choked. unfortunately what you do during the regular season means nothing when you get to the postseason ie arod. soriano struck out like it was nobody's business in the last postseason he played with the yanks."
Posted by: mull

Correct, like I've said all along, the Yankees and their trade-happy fans always want someone from another team just because they are on another team. You know what's even more insane? I'd bet you that if Soriano was still playing for the Yankees right now, the same idiots would be looking to trade him!!

Folks, just because there's a trade deadline doesn't mean that you have to trade somebody just for the sake of trading somebody.

I get the feeling that Abreu is not needed. He reminds me of Raul Mondesi. By the time Abreu would be used to his new teammates, Matsui and Sheffield will be back. If Brian Cashman can get a stopgap pitcher for the stretch run then OK. Any quality starters will cost too much from the farm system.
This is one of those times when some of the best deals you make are the ones you don't make.