On the Yankees beat

If, we have two pressing needs it 4 and 5th starter spots. Wright again proved that he is unreliable or mediocre at best in his present slot. Ponson looks to be similar with expectations for a quality start. Bullpen is another spot in need of assistance. I would not waste anytime with upgrades on offense. Matsui should be back after some rehab starts in August. I would save all bargaing chips for pitching. Since we do not have many to trade. Lieber, Maddux are professionals and upgrades to our 4/5th starters presently but aging and expensive. Maybe Chacon needs another shot at starting if no results come by trade deadline. He had speed up to 90 and looked comfortable with some determination which was not evident while in the prior starting roll. Lets face it. There is not much availabe. Getting stuck with future contract with Maddux and Lieber could be a downer. Zito, the asking price is probably way to high. So I send a mixed message of need but their appears limited quality help for the choosing.

I get a feeling that most of the names being thrown around are either product of ESPN trying to find something to talk about, or rival GMs trying to drive up prices for their players by "leaking" Yankee interest. Let's not forget the ARod to the Cubs for Aramis Ramirez rumor that floated by a couple of weeks ago. I really don't see Yankees making a major deal before the deadline, and I'm fine with that. There's no point in making a deal for the sake of making a deal. I can see picking up some bullpen help or a bat for the bench, but don't think it's going to be a big name and have no idea who. NL pitchers (Hernandez, Torrez) don't exactly have a good track record in the AL....Abreu and/or Soriano are expensive and overrated, and Yankees really don't need another bloated contract on their hands. Zito would cost too much talent-wise, and I don't see why A's would deal him when they are in the heat of a pennant race.

I agree with ym and Jim. If there is any need, it is for a pitcher. Don't necessarily agree that it is only starters, and if we can get another mid-level reliever, it might be worthwhile, depending on what we had to give up. I am somewhat nervous at the number of appearances Proctor and Farnsworth have. If Vallone steps up even further, then all should be ok, if not, we could be in trouble when arms start to tire. Whatever the question, TJ Beam and others have demonstrated they are not the answer.

Give Chacon another opportunity. Maybe work Chacon and Ponson can combine as a starter. Have each on a short leash and reserve the other as a long releiver desgnated for that spot in case of trouble, see if one of the two demonstrates reliability. In the end, it is troublesome, but if we can get Wright to the 5 slot, then he is a 5 slot pitcher. Let's not forget, no team can have 5 number 1 pitchers. We are quite lucky to have, as a small stretch, 3.

I would rather the Yankees sit tight then trade a major prospect. The pitching coaches should work with Ponson and Chacon to see if they can straighten them out.

If we can get Betemit in a deal for Proctor, we should do it. Proctor's trade value will never be higher than it currently is, and he is beginning to show that Torre has "burned" him out for this year. We can get Roberto Hernandez or some other mediocre mid-reliever to take Proctor's spot. This makes Cano expendable, as he is not the player Betemit is, or will be. We can't count on what we will get out of Matsui, so we must explore getting Soriano in a package including Cano. There are currently no starting pitchers on the market worth giving Cano up for. No way I would mess with Abreu and that contract, even if Lieber is tied with it. NL pitchers at best, are now a "crap shoot" when facing AL hitters. The D.Train is the only guy I would consider because he is lefthanded and "effectively wild" enough to give Boston trouble. If we pass on Betemit for Proctor, we will regret it for years to come.

Robinson Cano is not the player than Wilson Betemit is? You're right, he's better. Cano is hitting near .330 and only shows signs of improving. He may not be the flashy defender that Betemit is, however, Cano is much more of a solid bat for the Yankees. I don't think there is even a question regarding that.

Betemit is a nice player. Cano is a star, and he's 3 years younger than Betemit, so his upside is likely even higher. The only way Betemit for Proctor swap would make sense is if Yankees then flipped him for another reliever (as suggested by Olney in his chat, I believe). Why do you keep saying we should trade Cano for Soriano??? You'd think Yankee fans had had enough of Fonzie in '03. Not to mention that Soriano is 7 years older than Cano and makes approximately $9.7 million less.

I can't stop thinking about Soriano whiffing all of those low-and-outside breaking balls during the 2003 ALCS. This guy still hasn't learned how to take a pitch!

Is Phil Hughes not ready to be brought up? I look at all of these rookies who are tearing it up this season: Verlander, Lester, Anibal Sanchez, Liriano, Papelbon, Jered Weaver, etc.. Isn't Hughes supposed to be as good as these guys. If so, bring him up!

Agree with much of the sentiments regarding proceeding cautiously with trades and acquisitions. I think we are all somewhat "gun shy" based on Yankee history. (I'm sure Cashman is too!!) Remember the saying that a star coming of the DL is similar to a big trade. If Matsui's work ethic is like I think it is he will be back to RBI machine form in no time. I also agree, bring up Hughes. And hopefully some mid-to-late reliever will fall in Yanks laps. Farnsworth and Proctor give me heart burn!!

I say let things stand. We are in the Wild Card lead, and only 1.5 behind Boston, who have problems of their own. Godzilla's coming back, so is Cano, we may even be able to add Dotel in the coming weeks. Keep Proctor, keep the prospects, and keep plugging away.

Besides, sticking with farm teamers (see: Cano and Wang last year, Proctor and Melky this year) I think actually makes your farm system better. It tells guys like Kevin Thompson or Matt Smith - Get it done and we'll bring you up.

There's no way that I'd trade Proctor for Betemit, nor Cano for Soriano! As I stated yesterday and Dave and YM did today, I can't get that taste out of my mouth of Soriano striking out, what, 11 times in the 03 playoffs and Series?

Proctor had a bad outing last night, but the Rangers didn't exactly kill the ball now did they? He's been in 51 games!

The Yanks don't need to do anything major. Maybe a Delucci for the bench and to platoon in right will do. He can be had for a low level minor leaguer. I'd like to see Chacon get another start or maybe Proctor. I think that he can do a good job as he throws hard and has a good breaking ball. He'd pitch every 4 days so he'd be fresh. Make Wright a reliever and give him an inning. He can let it fly and throw stikes. It's only an inning.

We're in this thing folks!

finally the yankees are beginning to bring up from within and its working. they dont need aging has-beens to win as we can see right now. playing in the new york spotlight has proved to been rather difficult for some players. savage players like jeter thrive in the environment while players like arod wimper and cry about the fans being meanies to him and making him sad. theres no point taking a risk on a player with a big contract because we dont really need help at any position, with the exception of maybe a 4/5 starter. everyone knocks on wright, but at least he has been fairly consistent. he had one good season before the yankees signed him and everyone expects him to be lights out. he cant pitch into tht game but thats been evident all season. id say maybe give chacon another shot at the starting ro, send ponson back to aruba, and either put wright in a long reliever role and trade for a decent 4-5 starter. proctor for betemit is ridiculous. proctor is pitching so well right now and getting rid of him would be one of the worst moves the yankees could make. especially since they are talking about getting betemit, a 3rd baseman. sure hes young and hes pretty good, but im pretty sure we have 3rd base covered right now, however poorly it may be defensive wise, arod is hitting the ball decently, though hes not hitting worth 250 mil. in 2 years phillip hughes will be ready for the bigs, he's still very young, about 19-20 i think, and if we trade him, god help us all. but with the boss running the show you have the expect the worst.

I'm a Cano fan. I don't want him traded. He has fun and obviously can be successful in NY. I have mixed feelings about Proctor. Some nights he's a world beater and some nights he's Manny Ramirez's whipping boy. I believe our target, given what we are willing to give up, should be a Mike Timlin type. I thought Bob Wickman would have been the perfect add because he's retiring and we wouldn't have been tied to him going forward. That and he's been here before and could easily take some of the load off of Proctor and the schizophrenic Farnsworth. I do believe we need a minor bat though. We missed our opening, if it ever existed to reacquire Juan Rivera, but David Dellucci has got be available. He'd be perfect. He takes his walks, can kill the mistake pitch, can run and can field. Philly doesn't even use the guy so his price tag should be affordable. He's played for Torre before and he'd make Guiel and Crosby expendable if we needed roster spots down the road. No offense intended to those guys who are doing a good job in limited at bats with limited skills. I'm not ready to rush Phil Hughes and I certainly don't want he or Jose Tabata traded under any circumstances, but we desperately need to do something about the pen. We can't count on Dotel, through no fault of his own, and if we aren't going to elevate Cox or even Bean (how did his stock fall so low?) we have to locate a strike throwing rubber armed machine to take the load off. Last night was just embarrassing after we took the lead in the 8th. The game should have been over. I realize there is much debate over whether we need a starter or a hitter, but I think priortiy one, now that we know Dotel is not going to be the factor we had hoped, has got to be a reliever. I also am against acquiring players, no matter what their age, that are going to muddy the waters going into next season with guaranteed contracts. If we get Abreu that means Sheff is a free agent and dollars to doughnuts he ends up batting cleanup for the hated Red Sox next year. Is that what we want? Betemit is of interest, but we need to have a plan if we acquire him. I do think the school of thought that Proctor's value will never be higher has some merit and that Betemit will never come cheaper, but if we are going to struggle to find a place for him to play and not be able to replace Proctor I'm inclined to trust Torre & Cashman as to why the deal has not been consumated already. I wonder if A-Rod would consider moving to 1B a la Garciaparra? I totally understand the feeling of we need to do something because I think we do too, but I would prefer we measure this move carefully rather than doing something knee jerk stupid. We are right there with 50 plus games to play. Matsui should return and that's big. Grab a good reliever and hold the line. I think we can do this thing.

Starting pitching is what we need, but I agree with the other comments - there isn't much available. I think we can afford to sit tight. We're in the WC lead and 1.5 out of first! Once AROD goes on fire (and he will), once Giambi goes on fire, once Matsui/Sheff/Cano return, we're going to dominate. The Red Sox are in worse shape than we are. Their rotation is in shambles, their lineup has holes all over the place, Varitek is a liability at bat and behind the plate, it's over! Yanks will win this thing by 10 games. It starts now. Let's sweep Tampa, let's watch the Sox struggle against the Angels, and let's roll! We play today, we win today. Das it!

There is no way the Yanks should "stand pat." Anytime you standstill, someone will go by you. Namely the Red Sox. I'd rather see us try to improve this team and fail, then do nothing and not make the playoffs. Soriano will put us over the top. You guys that keep re-living Soriano's past, need to focus on today. Soriano's production will drop a little when he faces AL pitching, but his bat and speed on the bases will get us into the playoffs.

Roy,

I've seen some Nats games this year. Sori still swings at crappy pitches that are like a foot outside the zone. Plus, a Soriano-Damon-Bernie (you don't see Bernie sitting, do you?) outfield will be one of the worst defensive alignments in recent history.

Making a move for the sake of a move just because some other teams are doing it is foolish and shortsighted. For every David Justice there are many more Contreras-for-Loaiza deals. Also, what do you give up for him, seriously? Cano, and end up with a tremendous liability at 2B? Phil Hughes, and likely end up with another Kazmir for Zambrano. Let's not forget that Sori is a free agent after this season. It is absolutely not worth it and stupid to give up the talent that Nats are asking for for a 2-3 month rental. It's the kind of deal Stein would've made in a heartbeat in years past...and that's why the Yankee farm system has been sucked almost completely dry.

Very often it's the deals that you don't make that end up being the best strategy of all.

Unless it is pitching of middle relief or a 5th starter then hold tight. There is chemistry on this team which is beautiful to watch. Six roll type players are performing well together. This can work. Its not all about stats. There must be some gut intuition.

Yes Roy, we must keep on trading because we all know how terrible the players we've got right now are. Trade! Trade! Trade!
Always got to trade to show we are doing something. One step forward, three steps back.

Remember some of these more recent past trades that the Yankees made so that they and their dumb fans thought would help them win the World Series that year?

- July 5, 2002
TED LILLY (3.89 ERA for Toronto) and JEREMY BONDERMAN (3.66 ERA for Tigers) in a 3-way deal to Oakland and Detroit Tigers for JEFF WEAVER (did he help the Yankees win the WS?).

- June 6, 2003
MARCUS THAMES (a star right now) to the Tigers for RUBEN SIERRA (where is he now?).

- December 4, 2003
NICK JOHNSON (.308 BA, 14 HR's) and JUAN RIVERA (.295 BA, 15 HR's) to the Montreal Expos for JAVIER VASQUEZ (a bust in pinstripes).

- July 31, 2004
JOSE CONTRERAS (star right now) to the White Sox for ESTEBAN LOAIZA (where is he now?).

- July 28, 2005
RAMON RAMIREZ (3.07 ERA, .212 BA in Coors Field!) to the Rockies for ShAWN CHACON (one hit wonder?).

Did we win the World Series those years?
Wouldn't having any of them right now would help us win the World Series not only this year but many more years to come?

Yes Roy, just keep on trading them and see if we'll win the WS.

You foolish, trade-happy Yankees fans just never learn.

Eric great response for the fans who cannot show patience. There is another guy who I enjoyed. Rick Ledee played a nice left field and hit well enough to be trade bait. I hope the yanks stand pat.

In the interest of a younger team and bolstering the pitching staff, are there any trades we could make for Matsui or Sheff which would make sense?

Eric - great post.

Sure, it would be great to get more pitching or a star OFer, but if we don't, I think we can win with what we have.

As you pointed out...even if we do make a trade, it may not work out. The track record on last minute trades hasn't been great. Maybe we'll find another David Justice. It's more likely to be another Matt Lawton or Jeff Weaver. A trade could make our team worse, rather than improve it.

If, White, Smith, Beam and Duncan are being shopped for trade bait to other clubs. Plus there is interest in these prospects. Some for present use and others down the road. Why don't we bring them up or are we frieghtened by the prospect of their failure and diminished return. I say, " go for it, lets change the direction of this ship." Our farm system has done well the last couple of years. Its waiting to be harvested for the pennant drive. With 30 teams and a smaller talent pool, this fact lends itself to greater use of the farm system especially if the crop is there.

Even the most minor of Minor League prospects can become someone. Look at Brad Ausmus. He's not much, but he's played 100 years and he was a throw-in deal. Look at what Willie Upshaw and Damaso Garcia did for the Jays during their World Series years. But Sterling Hitchcock and "I forgot who" were definitely worth TINO!

You can go back to 100s of trades and Bonderman was a good recall for "Thread" Weaver! Bad idea there.

What "Cash" has to do is send a prospect like Colter Bean (I know he's not on anyone's radar, he's just an example), who has not produced in the Bronx when given a chance, to pick up a guy like Lieber or Lidle or even Ramon Ortiz to help our pitching. Maybe TJ Beam has something, but he hasn't shown it yet. Other teams loves him.

I would put J-Wright on the shelf, cut bait with him after the season since he has a ridiculous contract anyway, and let Chacon take the 5th spot. He's still got something, he's affordable and he's healthy again. We need a steady arm for the #4 spot and that's going to take a kean deal by a kean man in "Cash".

If you can get a rental like Carlos Lee or Soriano for Eric Duncan -- whose future is dimmer now than it was in Spring Training -- that's where we have to rely that "Cash" has a large pair of onions swinging when he makes that sort of deal.

There has been rumors that the Yankees is very interested in SF's ace S-pitcher Jason Schmidt and have been considering seriously trading Chien-Ming Wang for Schmidt.
Any input...anybody?????

Where did you hear this, IHC? Schmidt is older, frequently hurt, is a free agent after this season, and is coming from the NL. I think our previous track record with NL pitchers speaks volumes. I should hope Yankees don't do that deal.

Let's go over this one last time. We trade Proctor for Betemit. Betemit becomes our fulltime 2nd baseman. We then trade Cano and maybe Phillips or Duncan for Soriano. The deal is contingent on us signing Soriano to a multi-year contract. We then get Roberto Hernandez or some other mediocre mid- reliever to replace Proctor. This type of pitcher can be acquired cheaply. This would give us an outfield of Soriano, Damon, and Melky, with Betemit at 2nd base. If Matsui comes back, Giambi would play 1st base, and we would rotate the D.H. spot between the 4 outfielders. If Sheff makes it back at all, I don't think he physically will be able to produce at his previous level. We saw this with the Cubs and Derrek Lee. This is not trading just to be trading. This improves the current team, and we still have our top prospects and Melky.

Why would anyone want to trade Cano, who announcers always seem to compare to Rod Carew in his hitting style, and in the estimate of many baseball people has the skills to win a batting title? Melky's the same way, he doesn't jack the ball but he works counts and hits to all fields from both sides of the plate. These are guys that can make things happen in the lineup, guys you can play small ball with, guys the Yanks need so they don't have to wait for the long ball all the time.

If Cashman trades Cano with his future upside or Wang with his potential then Cashman should be selling hats on the lower east side. Two young guys who are producing. What more could even the most win at all costs Yankee fan want.

Dontrelle and Cabrerra for melky,hughes, tj, and duncan. The money saved fits the fish, and the porspects wont be needed. How about it Cash?

News about potential trade of Chien-Minng Wong for Jason Schmidt came from the San Francisco Bayside News.The Yankees have made poor trades
before. Andy Petittes is a good example of this.

Andy wasn't traded.
He left as a fA

Sorry, Roy, I disagree completely. A trade for the sake of doing something would ruin the Yankees by trading for nothing.

Trading Proctor for a part time 3B player who might take over 2B, and then trading Cano for a 4th outfielder is not a good plan. So then using the 4th outfielder as a DH and asking Giambi to play 1B is not a good plan.

Why should the Yankees field the worst defensive team in baseball because of an urge to make some flashy trades? The Yankees would need 8 to 10 runs a game to make up for bad plays.

There were two glaring needs on the Yanks: pitching and backup catcher to keep Jorge rested so he can continue one of his best career years.

Fasano answers the catching need and can effectively spell Jorge a bit more than Stinnett.

The need now is pitching. Pitching (and good defense) wins championships, not number of trades. The Yankees need to add to the relief pitching not trade a vital cog. And as we all know, they need a competent 4 and 5 starter. Maybe they have it in Wright, Chacon, or Ponson. Maybe not.

Wright has shown a few flashes of brilliance and then has been awful. That inconsistency is troubling. Chacon has been good until the injury. The Wednesday night bail out was the best inning I have seen him pitch this year. Can he expand on that? Not sure. Ponson had one adequate game and one awful game. What surprise will he present next?

The position and role players have been better than decent this year for the Yankees. They have the third best record in all of baseball at the moment. But now it all comes down to pitching.

By the way, awesome post, Eric, pointing out some of the boneheaded moves that seemed to be just for the sake of doing something.

I'd like to see the Yanks pretty much stay with what they have. The only thing different I'd do is move Ponson to the Pen. He seems to have problems concentrating and would probably do well in one inning at a time. Having to stay ready to pitch all the time (instead of every 5th day) would probably also keep him out of trouble. I'd rather see Matt Smith called up, that Proctor dealt for anyone. Fortunately, Atlanta traded Benemit to LA, so that foolish move is off the table. Soriano in a trade, only if it doesn't cost top Minor League talent (which is a way of saying no). Besides, if we really want Soriano, we can get him back next year in Free Agency. Lieber if he doesn't cost much, but for god's sake--don't mortage the future. I remember other less than memorable deals like Bunher for what was that 3rd baseman's name? That chucklehead was Steinbrenner's idea and Brunher was a mainstay in Seattle's Right Field for years! Let's give Chacon a shot in the rotation, I liked what I saw in Texas--he seemed to spot the ball where he wanted to and kept it down! Let's not do a (Mets) Amos Otis for Joe Foyd.or a reverse Sparky Lye for Danny Kater or Lou Pinnella for Lindy McDaniel. Some deals work, but now isn't the time to gamble on a bust. I like Melky's upside, Cano and Wang too. They should be UNTOUCHABLE. We need Proctor too much to gamble on a chucklehead like any pitcher (except Tom Gordon) from the National League. If you can do Gordon for Proctor....well, then perhaps--but no more than one middle level prospect to boot with him.

A strait salary dump make the most sense for the Yankees, playing to their strength . the one talked about involving Lieber and Abreu seems most logical.