... or the Yankees or Red Sox. Here's the bottom line for Twins GM Bill Smith when it comes to Johan Santana: Can Smith settle for an attractive package of prospects for the two-time Cy Young winner, which is what the Mets can offer, or does he need a proven major-league starter, like the Yankees' Phil Hughes or the Red Sox's Jon Lester, to save face in dealing Santana?
It would be awfully tough for Smith to trade Santana and not have any of the players in that deal make an impact for the Twins next season. I'm not saying that Carlos Gomez won't make the roster, but he could use some more experience before stepping into a full-time role. As for Philip Humber or Kevin Mulvey, they have potential, but that's about it at this stage.
The Mets are under the impression that Smith is still figuring out which way to go, as reported today in Newsday. They're definitely in the mix, but if the Twins want a difference-maker for next season, the Yankees and Red Sox seem better equipped to provide that. If not, and Smith goes for the mother lode of prospects, then the Mets could be the ones to close the blockbuster deal.
Comments (24)
i take it you meant Humber and not Hughes?
If that Yanks or Sox need to give the Twinks a difference maker, why should they not just keep those difference maker players for themselves and save $140 mil? That's why I don't believe those 2 teams are really interested in Santana, just keep the other from getting him.
Fact is, all three teams in the running have made attractive offers, but why in his right mind would Bill Smith want to keep him in the same league and to a team that will almost certainly make the playoffs? Makes no sense at all. If he wants a difference maker now, the Mets can deal Heilman, Gomez, Humber and a lower level prospect. If he wants the top Mets prospects he would probably be looking for Gomez or F-Mart (we can't deal both with Milledge departed), Guerra, Mulvey and Humber. To compound the situation, all indications are that Santana would prefer to be in the NL since it gives him one less real batter to pitch to 3-4 times a game and he can hit, which he loves to do. The fact that the Mets have a pretty good nucleus of Hispanic players and GM should also be a plus. Time is ticking away for Smith, but so too for Minaya to a slightly lesser extent, as pitchers like Colon, Lohse, Livan Hernandez and a few others may sign with other clubs this month.
yanks & sox don't even want him - they just want to make sure the other doesn't get him. Quite honestly, after seeing him get lit up (for him) by the AL Central last season & post his worst numbers in years, I really think he would be better off in the inferior NL. The superior AL hitters are starting to sit on his changeup & are hitting him better than ever. That does not bode well for Yanks & Sox. Why should they give up Hughes & Lester (& others) & then pay him an additional 140 million? Texeira & Sabathia are free agents next year & they won't cost anything but money & draft picks. Let Santana go to the Mets - it's a good fit for him.
The Twins want a proven pitcher. The Mets have Aaron Heilman, who does not want to stay in the bullpen and wants to start. The Mets don't want to start Heilman, but want Johan Santana. Anyone else wondering why Heilman is not added to the mix? Is this guy really so important to us as to hold up a deal for the best pitcher in baseball?
The Mets have diminished Heilman's trade value by continuing to use him in the bullpen. I continue to be mystifed at why the Mets refuse to give Heilman a chance to start? Although he's basically a two-pitch pitcher, he has demonstrated the ability to start, both in the regular season and in last year's exhibition season when he performed at least as well, if not better, than Pelfrey.
Perhaps the Mets' argument is that Heilman is too valuable in the bullpen, but with at least one hole in their starting rotation and the growing prospect they will lose him in free agency, I cannot understand the Mets' reluctance to give Heilman a shot at starting. They may turn out to be right in the end, as with Isringhausen who refused to pitch in relief for the Mets, but they may lose a good pitcher in Heilman in the process.
It seems to me that, based on the reports I have seen, the price for Santana is too steep. I still think Pelfrey will be an effective starter in the majors, as he has show in flashes so far. He and Humber will have a bit more experience and maturity to draw upon this coming exhibition season. And I would hate to give up Mulvey without ever seeing him pitch. A deal for Santana would decimate our already thin farm system.
I also take some issue with the characterization of Hughes as "a proven major-league starter". While this description certainly fits Lester, Hughes career consists of a 5-3 record last season in 13 starts covering 72 innings in which he compiled a 4.46 ERA. Not exactly eye popping numbers...
All six comments are all right on the mark. It is obvious that the Yankees and the red Sox are playing a game of Cat and Mouse. While the Mets are stuck in the middle waiting for Minnisota to decide how they want to proceed with Santana. Personally, if Minaya wasn`t concerned about the future of the Mets organization, Santan would be a Met already. Yes the Mets rotation is weak and not scary, but it is not subpar either. You have martinez back, and from what we saw last September he is still the same pitcher he was before the injuries. However, no one knows for sure how well Martinez will pitch over a full season. Hernandez is still a very good pitcher, but he is prone to injuries. As for our younger pitchers Maine and Perez they are both basically learning to pitch in the major leagues. If the 15 wins is any sign then there should be even better this year. Again the results are still on hold for both struggled in the 2nd half last year. Pelfry, if he begins to trust himself more the confidence he showed last spring will trun into more wins, but only time will tell. Outside of Cashen, and Grant before 1977 are the only GM`s to produce quality starting pitching from the farm system. It took Minaya only 2 years to make the Mets winners on the major league level, but the organization was so badly gutted on the minor league level that only now the fans themselves are just noticing now when we need to make upgrades, the team just is too short to make those big difference trades. I say hold onto what we have, let Santana enter free agency offer him $140 million, the keys to the city and whatever he wants while we still have prosepects maturing on the minor league level.
FIRE OMAR ..... He screwed us last year not getting bullpen help and he is screwing us this year by not getting ANYBODY!
The guy is here to ho nob with NYers....HE is a MORON!
SELL THE TEAM, FIRE THE COACH, FIRE THE GM!
interesting interview w/ the boston globe's nick cafardo below. he thinks the sox may be hoping the mets grab santana.
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/16/q-a-with-nick-cafardo-of-the-boston-globe/
MEts are not grabbing anyone. They are doing the same thing they did in 01....After a great 00 all they needed was a few changes. They did nothing.
Same as last year. No bullpen help.
Now this year, no starting pitching, no bullpen.
FIRE OMAR...FIRE RANDOLPH....SELL THE TEAM
Just read a great article titled "All-Juice team" or the like. Great read on all-star team consisting of players suspected of PED use. I read it after catching that Cafardo interview - nice insight!!
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/16/all-time-teams-the-all-juiced-team/
Read some reports that Santana got a bad arm. If Omar makes the deal, he better make sure Santana is healthy.
Remember Victor Zambrano???
Of course we remember Victor Zambrano. Peterson is a great pitching coach but I agree, this team does not need any more "works in progress" or 30-something year olds who will break down before the All Star break. This team had better produce some major offense this year because as of right now, I cannot imagine the starting ERA will be less than 4.50 - 5.00 per game. On the other hand, IF Pedro and Duque can stay healthy for a full season and Maine and Perez can at least duplicate what they did last year - with the exception of the 2nd half meltdowns - and Pelfrey steps up to become the dominant pitcher we all know he can be - they realistically could wind up with one of the better rotations in the NL. I don't want them to completely empty the farm but of course, if the Twins agree to trade A HEALTHY Johan Santana for the right package of young talent, the Mets will have to do it. Santana would be the best ace the Mets have had since Doc in the 80's and would instantly catipult the rotation from mediocre to above average...dominant. The NL hitters are not familiar with him and he can easily put up numbers like he did all those years with the Twins. Yes, he had a bad year last year...by his standards...but we all know how good this guy is. Any Mets fan who says they don't want to trade our young talent for him is either lying or just ignorant. He's not old. We can lock him up for 5, 6 maybe 7 years. Sounds good to me.
Lenny you know less about the Mets than you do about the pathetic Rags. Stop rooting for NY teams you jinx!
Lenny's concern is not unwarranted. Santana finished poorly, several national media types have tossed around the theory he was injured late in the season.
Anonymous is an Icelander fan who is afraid to use his real name. Can you blame him? Probably goes to games with a bag on his head. Yes, that is how you can spot him at the Nassau Mausoleum. He is known as the "Bagman".
Santana can throw righty and be better than any of the Mets starters.
Lenny and Go Rangers are the same pathetic person that smells like pee when leaving msg after yet another loss.
Over the weekend, I have read unsubstantiated reports that the Mets have a major announcement forth comming... Is there any validity to this? If indeed Minaya was finally able to pry Santana away from Minnisota, just how much dammage is there to the farm system? You are talking about having very little depth in the farm system, and when he has to make a trade there will be no chips in the farm system to trade. Not saying the Mets will be mortally hurt by the trade, since they are in a position of strength since the Yankees are unwilling to send their farmsystem over to the Twins and the Red Sox only in this to prevent the Yankees from getting Santana. I still say Minaya has and I believe he has stead fastly stuck to it not to give up both Martinez and Gomez in the same trade. I believe, the reason the Mets want Santana now is because by signing him now will be much cheaper then if he was on the open market as a free agent. If you think the deal Beltran signed was steep, Santana will be close if not more then what A-Rod has. Plus one can always find pitching help, it is positional players that are hard to find, develope, and be an integral part of the teams future or for a trade.
Omar is in the West Bank on some peace trip in a place where there will never be peace but at least he has a good heart.
He was a good trader with Montreal but now like Cashman his moves don't seem to work out ...
Johan would be a nice addition.
Gomez
Mulvey
Heilman
Is that enough?
As for do they need MLB ready talent? Well shouldn't all or most of the prospects the Twins trade for pan out?
Fire Omar. The guy is bringing back the same chokers as last year. Orgaization is pathetic.
DO NOT BE FOOLED FOLKS !!!!!!
Without an ace this team is THIRD PLACE !!!
Hate to lose Gomez. That kid is going to be a great player in future years. What is the reason Mets don't give Heilman a chance to go elsewhere and thrive? We need bullpen help but his talent is wasted there and there are other arms that would fit in. Omar doesn't make moves anyway until the Super Bowl is over.
The Mets are the logical landing place for Johan Santana. The Red Sox and Yankees may offer more Major League ready talent, but the Mets have quality prosepcts, also. This tarde shoud be completed before pitchers and catchers report to spring training on February 14, 2008.
If the latest proposed deal, Santana for Gomez, Guerra, Humber and Mulvey comes to fruition, then Omar played his hand just right. I would be shocked if the Twin take Humber instead of Pelfrey, as Pelfrey has shown me a much bigger upside than Humber. If the Twin insist on Pelfrey in place of Humber, I think it's too much to give up.
As far as losing Gomez is concerned, I hate to lose the kid, but you do have to give up something of value in order to get someone like Santana. If the Mets can manage to get Santana while keeping F-Mart, however, they have won the deal, IMO. I must admit I'm still mystifed by the Milledge deal, particularly if we trade Gomez and considering what we got back for Lastings, which is not much.
As for Heilman, I still think he will end up as a quality major league starter somewhere, though not with the Mets. Either that or he'll fall on his face as a starter somewhere else and end up back in the bullpen, as happened with Isringhausen years ago. Heilman will never accept that he belongs in the bullpen until he's given the shot to start, which is unfortunate as he never figures to get that shot with the Mets. Too bad, IMO.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-01-29-twins-mets-santana_N.htm