Just talked to an American League scout who watched Philip Humber extensively last season and was not impressed. In fact, when his team suggested making a deal for Humber, as part of a package for one of their regular starters, this scout helped shoot it down. While Humber's curve ball is definitely a plus, he's not viewed as a top quality prospect by other clubs, and that's hurting the Mets' efforts to include him in a deal for an elite starter like the Orioles' Erik Bedard or the A's Dan Haren.
Not sure why it was reiterated again in some circles today, but the Orioles already had turned down the Mets' offer of Humber, Carlos Gomez and Aaron Heilman for Bedard. It's believed the Mets' chances would improve by swapping Mike Pelfrey for Humber, but even then, it may not be enough. The Mets appear to be out of any talks for either Haren of Joe Blanton, but they seem to have a faint pulse in ongoing discussions for Bedard.
Comments (13)
OMAR PLEASE COME HOME .YOU ARE MAKING YOURSELF AND THE METS LOOK BAD. YOU ARE DEALING WITH THE BIG BOYS DOWN IN NASHVILLE AND BY ALL ACCOUNTS YOU SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE THE TALENT TO MAKE A DEAL FOR A N ACE. SO OMAR PLEASE COME HOME FOR THE HOLIDAYS AND START THINKING WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SAY TO THE MET FANS WHEN THEY QUESTION YOU ABOUT THE METS INABILITY TO SECURE A BIG TIME PITCHER FOR 08, BUT OMAR WHATEVER YOU SAY DO NOT INSULT OUR INTELLENCE BY TELLING US THAT BRYAN STOKES ACQUIRED FROM THE RAYS HAS ELECTRIC STUFF OR THAT THE METS DID NOT HAVE TO MAKE TRADE FOR STARTING PITCHING ! I CAN SEE IT NOW--- NOW PITCHING FOR THE METS BARTOLO COLON AND SIDNEY PONZON ! ON SECONED THOGHTS OMAR STAY DOWN THERE IN NASHVILLE AND DO NOT COME HOME WITH OUT A N ACE. NO OMAR WE ARE NOT TALKING FREDDY GARCIA.
I apologize for taking up so much space but I have a lot to say. If Omar is serious about Erik Bedard he needs to change his offer. Pelfrey, Heilman and Gomez should be enough. Baltimore is much more interested in Pelfrey than Humber. That's what is keeping them from pulling the trigger. They basically laughed at Minaya's initial offer which included Humber rather than Pelfrey. But let's not be so hard on Omar. He can't make a trade without a willing partner. Mets fan's have to accept the fact that the team simply may not have the prospects necessary to acquire an ace and that's not Omar's fault. He can only work with what he has. That being said, he should sign Livan Hernandez. I know what you're all thinking but hear me out. If nothing else, Livan will give the Mets the 200 innings they lost when Glavine left. There is no guarantee Pedro will make 30 starts and even if he does, there's no guarantee he will go deep into every game. It is also a given that El Duque will miss some time, so they need somebody reliable should either of those situations arise. Omar said he feels comfortable that Pedro can give them 200 innings. I strongly disagree. Sure, he is capable if he stays healthy but it would be a huge risk not to sign a pitcher like Livan Hernandez as security. Who else will give them the innings they need on a consistant basis? There's a level of confidence with Livan that isn't there with Pedro or El Duque. You know what you will get out of Livan. Between 10 and 15 wins, around a 4.00 ERA and 200 innings. Almost exactly what Glavine would have given them. With Livan on board, it gives the Mets' rotation instant stability. It could look something like this:
Pedro
Maine
L. Hernandez
El Duque
Perez
I know it's not the eye-popping rotation that the Red Sox have but it's still pretty decent. Getting Bedard would obviously improve their rotation significantly however, they can survive without him. But only if they sign Livan or someone else who will give them 30 starts/200 innings. With Bedard in the rotation, everybody moves down one spot and Duque moves to the 'pen for long-relief and spot starts just as they used Darren Oliver in '06. Moving Duque to the 'pen will also fill the void left if Heilman is included in the Bedard trade and keep him healthy for the postseason.
I agree with Minaya that their offense and defense have been improved. Schneider is a huge upgrade defensively. Teams will run a lot less on the Mets which will induce more double-play opportunities and in turn, lead to fewer runs allowed. Although he won't have a "monster" year, Church should put up better numbers than what Green and Milledge combined for in '07. Here is what I believe the Mets opening day lineup should be:
Reyes
Castillo
Beltran
Wright
Alou
Delgado
Church
Schneider
With the lineup set up this way, it gives the Mets good speed and on base percentage from the top 4 spots which will create many RBI opportunities for the rest of the order. Alou batting behind Wright makes sense because David will see much better pitches than if Delgado were to follow. Wright batting cleanup is a no brainer. He's the best pure hitter on the team.
Cheer up Mets fans. There will be Mets baseball once again in October. They learned their lesson this year. Nobody is going to hand anything to them and they understand that. They broke our hearts this year, no doubt, but let's put '07 behind us and look at the positives...
-Schneider will throw out almost anybody who dares to run
-Church finally gives them the offensive production that they have lacked from RF
-Duaner Sanchez is on his way back
-One of the best, if not the best bench in the NL
-Two of the best young player's in the game in Wright and Reyes
-Two 15 game winners in Maine and Perez
-Citi Field in '09
They have filled every hole except an ace, an innings-eater and another arm or two in the 'pen, all of which I believe will be addressed before spring training. They also lack a team leader. Beltran doesn't feel comfortable in that role so Wright needs to step up. He is the most highly regarded and respected player on the team. More so than Reyes. He can take his game to the next level by stepping up as a team leader. He did a good job addressing the media during their September collapse and he should continue in that role for the remainder of his Mets career.
The most important thing for Mets fans right now is to stay positive and be patient. Omar is not going to make a trade just for the sake of making a trade. Let's not forget how angry everybody was when Duquette felt pressure to make a splash and traded Kazmir. If Kazmir doesn't get traded, the Mets probably wouldn't be in the position they're in right now. He won't say it but Omar wants Bedard badly. But he's not going to compromise the future of the franchise in the process. As good as Bedard is, he cannot win a World Series by himself. The Mets need to hold onto as much talent as possible to not only win now but also in the future.
Bottom line Omar is a joke. This team is going to get torched next year. Our staff is not bad, it is HORRIBLE. Two of our pitchers will be on the DL for half the year. Maine and Perez are #3's at best. They show flashe of being #2's, and then come crashing back to Earth. Perez led the Nl in wildness and simple can blow up on any given day. Maine has TWO pitches. He too is a mental case.
This team spent a ton of $$$ to get people back at Shea. IT worked. It is built to win NOW .... OTher than Wright and Reyes we are old, old, old !!! Yes Beltran is still young, but his legs are not!
We have NO BULLPEN.....Wagner is decent, yet we all hold our breath everytime he pitches. Sanchez is done, Heilman is a HR tosser, and the rest are crap.
Now to Colon and Livan.....ARE YOU KIDDING ME ??????? These two are the biggest jokes in baseball. Innings eaters ??? Give me a break. This is NY not Boise Idaho. We need an ace.
I am not one of these people that wants an All star at every position. Look at every Champion of the past. HEck look at the Yanks of the 90's....You need dirt dogs, you need chemistry, you need role players, and you need grit.
Who is our leader ??? Who is our dirt dog (like a Paul O'neill?) LoDuca was our fire and Omar did NOT EVEN CALL HIM !!!!
I love the Mets and will always be a fan....Heck I named my kid Shea before Chipper did his (freaking copy cat :) ! ) Yet I will not just nod my head like this organization is always right......They screwed us after 00 and they are doing it now. Seems like once the Wilpons get fire back in our bellies he and his Bobbleheads pour water on it with empty pormises.
EITHER BE A CONTENDER OR RE-TOOL. This current team cannot win it all. NO WAY.....Get an ACE or get younger !!
Tony V--Thank you for being the voice of reason...I have been saying exactly the same things...Realistically, this team is close to where it needs to be, and does not need wholesale changes...I have faith that a healthy Pedro gives us 200 innings...He gave us 217 in '05. On top of that, if Omar isn't able to get that ace caliber guy, all he needs to do is solidify the 5th spot in the rotation. That was one of the spots that could have made a difference last year, as that spot was good for only 3 wins!!
I would tweak your rotation slightly however--
Pedro
Maine
Duque
Perez
Livan
As far as the lineup, I liked how it looked at the end of the year, with Wright #3, and Beltran #4...plus, your best pure hitter is typically number 3 anyway. Beltran is a better power hitter, and slides nicely into the cleanup spot. Of course, is Delgado rebounds, then we may have to tweak it further.
But there is a lesson to be learned in this which that idiot Omar simply hasn't gotten...
You NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER make a trade within your division...you try not to make a trade within your league.
To trade Milledge within the division means 19 times a year you are going to give him the opportunity to ram it down your throat.
If you have enough sense to trade to one of the other divisions at least you only see the guy most seasons six times a year.
And if you're smart enough to get him out of your League, at most you see the guy once every 3 years for 3 games (unless you trade with the Yankees and I am sure, or at least I hope, Omar is smarter than that).
Thanks Omar, you're a real genius.
If I was GM This is what I would do.
The Mets are hurting for starting pitching let Aaron Heilman start. He wants to start and I am sure his attitude will change if they let him start. He could give you any where from 10 to 15 wins. The only thing you will face is the end of the year drop off like John Maine faced last year because he is not used to throwing so many innings. John Maine and Oliver Perez will give you exactly what you got last year. Both have show flashes of greatness, if they can give you 13 to 18 wins a year for the next 5 years with 200 plus inings your set. Mike Pelfrey finally realized that he throws the ball 95 plus with some life. Now that he realizes that he belongs in the majors he will be just fine in the rotation. Also with the help of Schneider behind the plate he will be that much more effective. Orlando we should just take him out of his glass jar end of July. Let him get a couple of starts under his belt so he is fresh for the playoff push.
Pedro is a smart pitcher as long as his body holds up he will be fine. He can take his month off in July to recharge for the playoff run. Let Humber throw and see what he can do, if he is a loser then dumb him for a bag of ball. Every other team can bring in young pitchers that can play, why can't the Mets. Let there young arms throw, you might be supprised. If there is no young talent fire the scouts, and find people who can eveluate talent, because obviously they can't.
Now that the Ricky Henderson disease is gone Jose Reyes should be fine, Ricky's infectious posion should be out of his system.
Right will give you .305 to .320, 25 to 35 Bombs and 90 to 110 RBI's. You get the same from Beltran but only a .260 to .280 Avg, same with Delgado .260 to .280, 30 to 40 bombs and the same in RBI's. So they are fine.
Alou can stroke the ball when Healthy, but he is old, so you can't coount on him, but a great weapon off the bench. Gomez and Curch in the corners.
Church will hit better in a stronger line up and Gomez is young, he displayed flashes of being a major league hitter, so I would give him a chance, atleast he will not hurt you in the field.
If the bullpen is not over worked they should hold up.
If Andrew Jones wants to play left sign him, if not tell him not to let the door hit him in the ass on his way out. Other than having a little faith in some of our younger pitchers and letting Willy manage with no Omar interference the Mets should do just fine this up comming season.
Hey Ravi.....Way to drink the cool aide kid...That staff is worse than four teams in your diivison alone. Compare that to the Braves! Now that is FUNNY !!!!
That staff is putrid. 200 innings for another year older Pedro ??? What are you smoking ???? Pedro is NOT an ace anymore and even when healthy can ONLY go 5 innings. Who is coming out of the pen ????????
Who is the stopper in that rotation when the team goes in a slump ???
That staff WITH GLAVINES 15 WINS could NOT EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFFS !!!!! Now without Galvine and his 15 wins you think it will ????????
Compare our staff to the Phillies, Braves, heck even the Marlins...Now compare it to San Diego, AZ, Cubs.....Now if you really want to laugh compare it to the AL and the likes of Boston and the Yanks.......
This team was one inning away from a ring in 06...It has done NOTHING to add to it since....Repeat of what happened after 00.
COME ON METS FANS....STOP BELIEVING N"OMAR and his bull sh^t........
Without a bonified Ace this team will finish THIRD. Behind the Phillies and the Braves.....Simple FACT !!!
Bedard, Haren and especially Santana are going to cost 'A King's Ransom'...apparently the shine is off the Met prospects. They should focus their attention on AJ Burnett. Electric stuff and fairly cheap (sad when 11MM is cheap). He's probably available because of past injury problems and because he can opt out after next year....probably costs less and has as good a repetoire, WHEN HEALTHY, as anyone.
Why can't they just let A.Heilman start and trade M.Pelfery, C.Gomez, P.Humber & R.Church (maybe D.Guerra) for Haren or Bedard? Heilman wants to & can start... U know why??? Cause Omar & clueless Willy don't want him to!!! These idiots give away H.Bell cause they don't like his attitude, they let Jesus Flores go because he's not important to their plans, then trade FOR a catcher with Milledge!!! Confused!?!? I know I am!!!
They need to stop with this garbage of "he's so important to the pen" nonsense!!! You need starters to go more than 5 to 6 innings every start kunkleheads!!!!! That's why I was thrilled when the FAKE 300 game winner crawled his sorry ass back to Atlanta! That loser went 5 to 6 innings every start he made... How many times did he go 7 or more? Once? Twice? And more importantly against who? The lite hitting Pirates? Give me a break.big game pitcher my ass, can't throw a fastball by little leaguers!
Time to start putting the players who can contribute on the field and let the old men and jormeymen players go find another place to waste their time... Not ours.
No more retreads I.E. B.Colon, L.Hernandez and the like Enough Omar, Enough! Players needed inquire within please oldplease. Old men and retreads exit stage left please.. No vacancy!
Omar is in a lose-lose situation with most Mets fans. If he trades away all or most of their young talent, he'll be criticized for mortgaging the future. If he makes no moves, he'll be criticized for not trying to improve the team. I would love to hear any ideas that make sense for this team to improve them now and keep them competitive in the future. Livan Hernandez is not a joke. He is an 11 year veteran who would solidify a weak rotation. He's no ace but he very well could be the stopper they need. I'm not saying he's the answer but he is a reasonable option and would come a lot cheaper than Silva or Lohshe. If they don't sign a guy like Livan and they are in the middle of a 5 game losing streak, Mets fans will be begging for a guy like him.Yes, the Mets need an ace but at what price? Any true fan would not want to see a trade including Pelfrey, Humber, Gomez and Fernando Martinez. Not for just one pitcher. No pitcher is worth that much. Like I said in my previous post, there is not one pitcher in the game capable of winning a division, 2 playoff series' and a WS all by himself. We need the necessary pieces to surround a guy like Bedard or Haren. I agree Bartolo Colon would be a huge mistake. He's 35, overweight and has major arm issues. I don't even understand why his name is being mentioned. I'd rather see them go with Pelfrey and Humber. At least give the young guys a chance. We'll never know what they're capable of if they're not given a chance. One thing is for sure, pitching is so important that the teams who have good arms want way too much in return, which makes trading so difficult and the free agents are usually mediocre at best but command such a high salary because the market is so thin. Don't be surprised if the Mets' opening day rotation features Pedro, Maine, El Duque, Perez and Pelfrey/Humber. We have to have faith that Omar does what is best for this team for the present and the future. And if he doesn't, the Wilpon's can refuse his contract extension. With all the questionable moves he's made, I'd still rather have Omar as a GM than Phillips or Duquette. It's because of the moves they made that they're in this situation now.
I would still include Reyes in a trade for Santana.
I would then go after Bedard and Tejada with Pelfrey, Heilman and Gomez.
If that all falls in place, then you would have:
Santana
Bedard
Pedro
Main
Perez
El Duque
Not bad huh?
The lineup can go as:
1 Castillo 2B
2 Church RF
3 Wright 3B
4 Beltran CF
5 Tejada SS
6 Alou LF
7 Delgado 1B
8 Schneider C
However, the biggest need that no one seems to realize is relief pitching. Remember how many games our starters got us into the 7th inning with a lead and how many of those games were blown by our overworked and tired relief squad. Remember how good they were for the first half of the year. I know starting pitching is needed to take the weight off the relief but it seemed that there was no relief pitcher that we could rely on down the stretch.
Most of you are typical Met fans, cynical, faithless and ungrateful. I think Manaya is doing an incredible job. You are all so good at being backseat drivers and second guessers. Tony V. is right. Omar is in a lose-lose situation. Have some faith. Be a good fan. Root for the home team and most of all sit back and RELAX!
You must be smoking some serious YEEEHH HOOOO my friend. You want Bedard AND Tejeda for Pelfery, Heilman and Gomez?!!! They wont give u BEDARD by himself for these 3!!! Are u insane? What they SHOULD do is get rid of Beltran peroid.
You see a real visionary like myself would say... hmmm what do i want my team to look like in 3 years... I'd say this would be my lineup: SS J.Reyes, CF C.Gomez, 3B D.Wright, 1B M.Texeria, RF A.Rowand, LF F.Martinez the rest of the lineup will play itself out... get your big 6 in line and the rest will work itself out. As for the pitchers: Bedard, Maine, Perez, Heilman, Mulvey with D.Guerra closing games out.
Trade Beltran and Pelfery of Bedard
Sign A.Rowand to play centerfield.
In 2 years P.Martinez, B.Wagner, C.Delgado, M.Alou will either retire or be relagated to some mentor role on another team. Start building your foundation Now!
Texeria will be a free agent next year.. Throw 20 Million at him.. He is the real deal folks... defense and power and a lefty... wow.
This current group had its chance and fell flat on its face... move on or get left behind folks.
The screwed up on Kazmir, Bannister, Jesus Flores, and Heath Bell. If they kept these players the wouldn't be in the mess they are in NOW! Its over for these older players move on.
If they started making these changes now the team would look like this: Reyes, Castillo, Rowand, Wright, Delgado, Alou, Church and Schenider. Bedard, Martinez, Maine, Perez and Heilman.
Wagner, Sanchez and Feliciano... still good but will look great next season with Texeria batting 3rd with Fernando Martinez and Deloius Guerra coming along in 2009.
Steady is an Islander fan, that is why he is so angry!