The Mets remain in the mix for a Hiroki Kuroda, a National League official confirmed this morning, but that same person believed that the Japanese righthander would sign with a West Coast team, and most likely the Mariners. Also the Mets intend to meet with a number of teams later today, so general manager Omar MInaya will have a better feel of where he stands by tonight.
With the Diamondbacks and Tigers now looking to the A's for pitching as well, the Mets could be fading from contention for either Dan Haren and Joe Blanton. Minaya remains focused on Erik Bedard, but there appears to be more than a half-dozen teams involved. The Mets are under the impression that Dontrelle Willis is unavailable for anything less than a ridiculous package of prospects and do not see him as a viable option.
Comments (33)
David
When dealing with the O's for Bedard, is there any element of salary dump The Mets can take on? It seems moeny, and the fact the Dodgers have plenty of pitching already, and don't seem willing to give up 'too much' would be the way the Mets have a shot at EB?
Would window to give him an extension be on the table at all?
Mets should exhaust all option in their persuit of Eric Bedard.
A Gomez, Heilman, Humber package sounds very fair.
Heilman as a middle reliever is very valuable in todays game with starters going less innings then ever before. He might even be a good starter if given the chance ( anyone rememebr how he got robbed in spring training vying for a spot in rotation?).
Gomez has SPEED that kills and looks like at worst an average to above average MLB OF.
Humber is a solid pitching prospect that the Orioles seem to need.
Make it happen OMAR!!
Gomez Heilman and Humber package was turned down by the O's according to reports.
If Omar traded F Mart, Gomez, & Humber how would that go over? The Mets would have their ace, while not losing anyone from their everyday roster.
rob-apparently that package was for Milledge, Heilman and Humber.
Either way, I think that two essential pieces would be Gomez and Pelfrey (though, word is that Baltimore is high on Church)
Dodgers are reportedly offering Matt Kemp and Jonathan Broxton for Bedard and are close to getting him. No package the Mets can offer is better than that.
This notion that the Mets *need* a #1 starter is just ridiculous. The Mets' rotation was 5th in the NL in ERA last season (despite only one month from Pedro, an awful season from a rushed Mike Pelfrey, and a decent number of starts from scrap-heap pickup Jorge Sosa), they also struck out more batters than any other NL rotation outside of Chicago.
The smart move for Omar to make is to add two starting pitchers via Free Agency (or maybe Contreras as a salary-dump). The Mets already have quality in their rotation - Maine and Perez both won 15 games last season and finished top 10 in the NL in strikeouts, Pedro is more than crafty enough to notch 14 or 15 wins if he stays healthy, El Duque will probably only give you 130 innings but don't forget how good he was in July and early August last year.
I would like to add, for example, Bartolo Colon AND Matt Clement. Then, barring some silly trade for a reliever, you'll have:
Pedro, Maine, Perez, El Duque, Colon, Clement, Pelfrey, Humber
I'm confident that the Mets will be able to come up with a solid back end of the rotation from El Duque, Colon, Clement, Pelfrey, and Humber.
Oh, and why is everybody in the media bringing up Joe Blanton ? He's nowhere close to being a #1 starter and understanding that is as simple as knowing the sport.
David, seems like your competition is slandering Maine:
http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2007/12/04/2007-12-04_mets_pitch_is_a_changeup.html
Also on Page 6, where Piazza and Koufax had to weather a few storms.
jon well put! But i wouldnt feel confident in anyone besides pedro comming up big in a game 6 or 7 in the playoffs
Not saying that we don't have a lot of talent on the team as is, but we're done for. We haven't improved the team this offseason, and it looks like we're not going to. We traded a high talent outfielder for a mediocre catcher and utility outfielder, which I would've been fine with if we turned around and made a strong move for a pitcher, but that doesn't appear to be happening. Kuroda? I fear he's the next Kei Igawa. Livan Hernandez? Not a solution to our pitching problems, more like a temporary bandage. And what about our bullpen? The same bullpen who blew lead after lead after lead in the second half of last year? It's practically the same, aside from the subtraction of Mota. I'm extraordinarily dissapointed with the Mets, especially Omar Minaya and management. Of course, they could turn around and made some nice deals and completely change my feelings; but at this point I fear we're out of it.
P.S. How do the Yankees manage to have such a fantastic farm system while ours wallows in mediocrity? I'm tired of mismanagement, get a new GM and bring back Bobby Valentine. That would get me interested again!
NO MAYBES ISLANDERS IN THE 80S
Anyone that thinks a rotation of Pedro, Maine, Perez, El Duque, Colon, Clement, Pelfrey, Humber, is worthy of going to battle with is smoking something. Let us not forget that Maine got knocked around pretty good at times last year and depending on what side of the bed he gets up on detrmines if Perez will be able to throw strikes. El Duque is a nice compliment but he can't stay healthy towards the end of the year and Colon doesn't seem to be able to keep the LB's off which I am sure led to his knee and arm problems. I like Clement but how is he going to be? The Mets need to get younger especially in the rotation and stop going after has beens like Steve Phillips did. Does anyone remember Mo Vaughn? Enough said.
BRING BACK ANDY TOMBERLIN
some good stuff here, too:
www.mlbfleecefactor.com
I really don't get the Mets never-ending quest for starting pitching. The way I look at it, the Mets have John Maine and Oliver Perez, both with 15 wins and ERAs under 4 as well as a high ceiling and the notion that both guys can pitch the "big game" (i.e. NLCS against the Cardinals, the next-to-last game of the season this year). There's Pedro replacing Glavine for a 10-14 win season. And El Duque is good for 20-25 starts. That probably leaves 70 starts for back-of-the-rotation pitchers where they can choose between Pelfrey, Humber and the inevitable cast of retreads.
To me, among the myriad Met problems, is a lack of offense, weak bench and weak bullpen. Those factors did the Mets in last season---not this dearth of ace-led starters. And frankly, this is 2007-2008 and no one, not even Bosox, knocks you dead with starting pitching, slots 1-5. If the Mets are going to exorcise their demons last year, it's through smaller moves.
And even if the Mets wanted to deal prospects for talent, frankly, the Mets have next to nothing to offer. Carlos Gomez (he of a lifetime minor league OPS of .738) and Fernando Martinez (.751 OPS) don't even look like potential fifth outfielders in the majors. And if I was a GM, I wouldn't want anyone in their system at any price.
I want a NICE CHEAP PITCHER.
Also remember before we give up Gomez and F-mart remember Bedard was hurt at the end of last year. he pitched very well last year and had a good rising year in 2006. He is far from being an elite #1 starter or having a track record of being that #1 picture.
Ken C mention we should be more focused on hitting and bullpen. That is our true problem. Everyone remember when Delagado sucked during the year? Beltran suffered and was bad. Alou needs to be healthy (he won't), and we have to account for this.
The Mets problem WAS the starting pitching. We didn't have 1 pitcher in the end that consistenly went 7 innings. Maine and Perez were inconsistent at best. Maine was awesome in the first half and horrible in the 2nd. hopefully that was a product of him pitching almost 200 innings for the first time and his stamina should be better this year. Perez on the other hand might throw a shutout one outing then walk 5 or 6 guys in the next 1, then give up 3 bombs in one inning in the next. If the starters can go 7 innings then our bullpen should be ok, especially with Duaner Sanchez coming back.
The Nationals are looking to deal Cordero or Rauch and the Mets should get in on that if possible just to sure up the bullpen, Especailly if they can't add a starter.
I think after last winter and because of the trading deadline last year when Minaya just sat on his hands, he really should be tredding on thin ice at this point. If he leaves Nashville with Nothing or next to nothing (Livan Hernandez), then the Wilpon's should really evaluate that position in the organization.
As far as the offer to the Orioles. Mets fans don't understand some things. PHillip Humber isn't highly regarded at all. the Mets are better off holding onto him and letting him get a years worth of pitching in the minors. Maybe he would be worth something next year. Mets fans tend to overrate our own minor leaguers just cause our ownership and management does. An offer of Gomez, Heilman and Humber just isn't even close to Kemp and Broxton. I think in order for the Mets to top the dodgers they will have to give up 2 of their Jewels and that means giving up Gomez, Fernando Martinez, along with maybe Heilman and Guerra (who is young enough to still be in high regards by some organization, even though I don't think much of him). Even throwing Mulvey in there would be nice. They will need to really overwhelm the Orioles to get this done and I say Minaya should do it. Get this done and give us the starter that we need to get to the Series.
Jon what r u smoking ?????
The Mets pitching is horrendous....With no #1 you simply cannot do anything. NAme one team in the history of the sport to win the World Series without dominant pitching.
WE DID NOT EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFFS LAST YEAR !!!!
Not to mention it was the worst collapse in baseball history.
Oh and do not forget last years best pitcher is not on our team anymore.....Glavine (although I am glad he is gone) was our best pitcher.
Colon ???? Clement ???? These guys are PATHETIC !!! They are not even "Hasbeens," more like "Neverwas!"
Please Met fans do not fall for the BS....This team did the same thing to us after teasing us in 00.....The follwing years they added NO ONE !!!!!
We also have NO RELIEF, NO RF, and NO FIRST BASEMAN.
This team spent al ot of money on Delgado, Pedro, etc to win NOW .... The window is closing after this year with those players.....
****This team MUST get a front line pitcher or they will not even be a playoff team !!! That is not an opnion, it is a FACT !!!!
If all it takes to get Johan Santana is to include Reyes, Gomez and Humber then I say PLEASE do it Omar. If you look at history, pitching wins championships. No one is better than Santana and frankly I was disappointed with Reyes' attitude and lack of endurance last year.
Also, what makes Bedard worth so much. I have not seen numbers and leadership to prove worthy of being considered a number 1 starter. I rather go after Haren if he becomes available.
Too much of a chance that these guys are all just this year's Barry Zito. Mets have a competitive team. Several players who had great years in 2006 and then sucked in 2007 figure to rebound some. The pitching is not that bad unless you want a team so good it just blows the rest of the league away. That would be nice, but it's unrealistic.
Live with what you've got and be happy you've got something. It's a fun team to watch. Pick up a couple of free agents and hope you strike gold. That's always a lot more fun than watching some $20 million guy struggle (or not bother to struggle) to live up to his rep. If you wanna blame somebody, blame the farm system. It's just not producing.
Steady.... That was your opinion and not a FACT
Steve,
Did the Mets not receive good pitching performances in September ? Oliver Perez threw a gem in Florida, Maine was outstanding in the 2nd to last game of the season, Glavine was good the first part of the month as well as in late August, and Pedro was effective. The problem was simply that the Mets had no pitching depth - look how often they had to throw guys like Pelfrey, Humber, and Lawrence. The starters they threw KILLED them in the Washington series at Shea.
Maine, Perez, and Pedro are all capable of winning 15 games next season. All 3 are capable of finishing in the top 10 in the NL in strikeouts (Maine and Perez did it in 2007). The problem is depth and injuries (El Duque, as well as Pedro). You don't want to be throwing kids who aren't ready (as was the case with Pelfrey in 2007) simply because they're better than the Chan Ho Parks and Jose Limas of the world.
The contention made by some here (as well as the NY media) is - The Mets don't have a starter who can throw up a gem. Simply put, that is an incorrect sentiment. Maine struggled in the 2nd half, but his final performance proved how he can pitch when it's all working. Perez can give you 7 innings of 2-run ball, Pedro is Pedro, and El Duque was amazingly effective when healthy last season.
Depth is the key to the Mets pitching in 2008.
Mets should trade, Reyes for Santana and all porspects to the O's for Bedard and Tejeda. It would be a big loss of reyes, but overall would be good for the mets
John, that sounds like a tuff move, but i think that could work. The time is now for the mets, we can not let the yankees take all spot light.
It would be a crime if Heilman became a top-notch starter elsewhere, which is posible. Try him!!! You've got a decent batvh of youth (Pelfrey, Humber) and a pretty decent staring 4 (Pedro, Main, Perez, E Duque). Pedro pretty much replaces Glavine and probably better.
I'd sign Livian H or somebody simliar to a 2 yr amd chase some serious relief help. The collapse was a lack of clutch hits, relief pitching (not counting Glavine's farewell) and..honestly alot about Reyes.
My thoughts, don't trade, sign. Keep the young arms & outfielders for the near future and SIGN pitching. I like Livian, shouldn't too expensive. I'd use him or El Duque or both in relief if Heilman starts.
Schneider will help the pitching more than his bat will hurt the line-up, especially if you play Castro more. Maybe keep Estrada for bench (switch-hitter, not far removed from being an all-star) .
It's releif and Reyes gang. If we don't blow leads and Jose returns to form and he well be fine. Keep in mind they had a big l;ead to blow. 3 or 4 different outcomes (that could happen just by losing Mota)and we may be talking about what they have to do to repeat.
We need pitching.. Someone above said no number one we don't have a 2 or possibly a 3. Pedro is 5-6 innings- not a number one.. with an 87 mile an hour fastball he is a number 3 who knows how to pitch at best. John Maine- who knows- did well in the second to last game but did not look like the guy we saw in the first half of the season. El duke who knows- like glavine last year could give you 1 inning or 8 innings maybe a 3 at best... Pedro and El Duke will not be around next year this is the year... Next year you will need pitching plus a first baseman a right fielder- Church not an every day player in NY. The 80 games we will get from Moises in Left please ... I get sick when someone above says we were competitive. If thats what you want go be a cub fan...
I'm the guy who said the Mets have a competitive team, jmag. If that makes you sick, sorry. Maybe you can keep a paper bag handy while you read the sports pages.
By "competitive," I meant they ran away with the division title two years ago, and led most of the way last year. That's not what the Cubs do. You need to understand that the other teams are trying to win too, and there's more to enjoying baseball than winning every game. If you freak out whenever your team fails to go all the way, go be a Yankee fan...
I get sick when someone calls their team "we" or freaks when they don't win it all. There's no divine right to have all the best players, not even for NY teams. If that's what you want, go be a Yankees fan...
I don't know about Omar, but there is definitely someone in the scouting and player development side of the Mets who should be looking for a new job. The Mets have failed at developing young players outside of Reyes and Wright. Milledge had apparent character issues that were missed. Pelfrey and Humber look like #4 starters at best (and stop pointing out how young they are -- at 25, Seaver, Darling, Gooden and Matlack were lighting up ballparks around the league, not wimping out in the fifth inning of big games). As for Gomez and Martinez, they both have taken a big step back from last off season, when they were being viewed around the league as future can't miss stars. Either they are not doing a good job scouting young talent, or they are not developing the players in the minors.
In addition, as a columnist on cbs sportsline pointed out, the Wilpons are more interested in kissing up to Selig by toeing the league's limits on spending for mid round picks then using the $$$ they are earning from us fans to bid up the high school and college talent they select to bolster their farm system (which is what other teams like the Red Sox, Dodgers, Yanks and Tigers have been doing, which is why these teams are picking up Santana, Bedard, Cabrera and Willis while the Mets are getting left out in the cold).
Finally, am I the only one who thinks it is long past time that Peterson took his windbreaker and got out of town? Except for Perez and Heilman, I don't see where he has had any positive impact on the Mets staff. If anything, innings per start has gone down since he got the job. And the reason for the bullpen's collapse was because the Mets stuck to a hard pitch count, like when they took Maine out of his last start with a 12-0 lead and one out in the 8th. Would it have killed the team to let Maine get a CG? I'd love to see Peterson gone and replaced with the last good pitching coach we had, Dave Wallace.
Pretty funny satire on Hank Steinbrenner.
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/04/beavis-and-hank-steinbrenner/
HEY METS FANS!!
I don't think it was your pitching that led to the collapse of last years team, rather it was the hitting. (Delgado pulled a disappearing act along with others. I do think that you all need pitching For the post season, but not TO GET TO the post season if your guys just play some D and lay the wood like they are supposed to.
As an A's fan I understand the mentality of Billy Bean, and what Mets fans must realize is that Lastings is not rated a highly as he was. Don't get me wrong, I would really like to have Lastings, but other teams are offering serious packages that are valued well above the Mets offer in addition to Lastings.
I really don't know how Mets fans feel about Haren, But he is REALLY cheap for a #1 [pitcher and had better numbers that Santana last season. If the A's could hit (LIKE AT ALL!!) He would have been a 20+ game winner with that ERA (~3.00), and in the NL (OH MY!!) He should dominate. Haren would do wonders for the Mets in the Post season as well, so if Omar wants him, its time to get serious.
Jon, I'm with you man. They definitely need pitching. But c'mon, Clement and Colon? Please, stop it. What have they done in the past 2 years? Combined, I think they have a total of 10 wins with an ERA over 6.00. They are not good options. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Livan Hernandez makes sense. For 11 straight years, he's pitched at least 200 innings. He's capable of winning 10-15 games as a #4 or #5 starter and they won't have to give up anything for him. He's not the ace that they need but he's a great option. Omar clearly likes him and it is becoming more of a reality that they sign a guy like Livan rather than trade for Bedard or Haren.