On the Mets beat

Thank you! My thoughts exactly. Maybe we can get the Nats to take Omar as well! I never thought I'd feel this way, but I'm beginning to wish we had Steve Phillips back running this team.

David,

Your confusion is in line with my concern. Unless this trade leads to another deal involving pitching, then I really can't see the need for it. Frankly, it's just stupid - beyond stupid in fact.

A 4th OF and a catcher to split time were so far down the list of priorities. This is just laughable.

I hope Omar knows that most Mets fans are going to be disgusted with this move.

Milledge is a poor outfielder with some upside as a hitter. can't hit a curve ball to save his life.

Carlos Gomez on the other hand is a good outfielder with great speed. A better prospect for RF. F Mart may be better than that.

Estrada was injured with no guarantee of being healthy.

I like the deal since they got a left hitting catcher ( healthy) who can platoon with Castro and a back-up left hitting OF.

They offered Milledge in deals but found out his value was low.

FIRE OMAR, FIRE RANDOLPH, SELL THE TEAM!

This orgainzation is an absolte joke. Omar is horrendous and needs to be fired IMMEDIATELY!

Milledge for two pathetic players that are BACK UPS AT BEST !!!

We have no pitching, no relief, no nothing! Poor Wright stuck in this putrid organization!

This trade is awful.

A middle of the road outfielder and catcher for Milledge is ludicrous unless Minaya found out from someone that another team wanted Schneider or Church and he can use that for pitching.

It just doesn't seem to make sense to me right now. I sure hope he has something up his sleeve to solve the real problems with this Mets team.

This is a horrendous trade, and anyone who disagrees simply has no understanding of the sport.

Addressing the idea that Milledge's value is low. First off, it shouldn't be. He did not get into trouble off the field (other than a rap song, which was yet-another overblown incident by the Mets) He posted a rookie OPS higher than noted players like Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley, Johnny Damon, Bernie Williams, Vernon Wells, and Alex Rios. And he's 22 ! He'll be 23 in April. Chase Utley had his rookie season at the age of 25 !

Milledge hit in A ball, hit in AA, hit in AAA, and posted a very respectable OPS in his rookie season despite hitting in front of the pitcher and not being given regular playing time.

The Mets did not need to trade him. His value was SO much higher playing 140+ games for them in RF than it was in a trade. Yet Omar treated him like a hand grenade. I guess he figured because Milledge performed a vulgar rap song, he's a few months away from robbing liquor stores.

And enough about Carlos Gomez. He is a talent, but has no business being up with the big club. He needs at least one more season in the minors, and even that is pushing it.

Doing what joel wants is akin to dumping one talented young OF, and ruining another one by rushing him when he isn't ready.

Schneider is garbage, just look at his numbers. Estrada is a better hitter. Church is probably as close to Shawn Green as any OF the Mets could have acquired this offseason.

Awful move. But you know what ? At least now I know what to expect. I had high hopes for Omar, but they are long gone. He's just another mediocre GM with a high payroll. I won't be caught off guard again.

Why get Estrada, a .300 switch-hitter, and then tout that you now have a left-handed catcher, who hits .235. You've wasted Mota, who wasn't great, but could have been leveraged elsewhere.
Milledge, of course, could have been leveraged elsewhere, too.
I don't understand the thinking. Hopefully, somebody like Billy Beane absolutely loves Church and Schneider. I know he still likes Milledge. Church is a pretty good player, but may not get any better since he is nearing 30. Milledge can always learn to become a better fielder and, as a hitter, when was good, he was VERY good. This reminds me of the demise of the 1980s Mets when the ridded themselves of guys like Dykstra and McDowell because they were characters. Remember who they got? Juan Samuel. That was just after they traded Mookie Wilson for two players who never amounted to much.

Omar- We need pitching- This trade is as stupid as Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano, Lenny Dykstra for Juan Samuel, Nolan Ryan for Jim Fergosi.

This is going to haunt the Mets for a very long time. OMAR wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We want have a winner in Queens...
Mets fans are wondering if you can do it?

for a guy who can't field and can't hit the curve you guys crack me up. He can hit left handing pitching but against right handed pitching (the majority of the league) he was poor.

Church can hit righties just fine and he should platoon with Gomez in right

Mets need a left handed bat. I like Church/Gomez way better than Milledge who is a bad outfielder.

Plus you get a healthy left-handed bat instead of Estrada who is not healthy.

This team is a JOKE....FIRE OMAR, FIRE RANDOLPH, SELL THE TEAM.....

Biggest collapse in the history of the sport and now we trade our number one chip for a hack OF....We have NO PITCHING!!!

What a joke organization. Omar is a LOSER !!!!!!!

Joel

Sorry, but your baseball knowledge is laughable. "Can't hit a curve" ? You're sold on that after Milledge's 200 career ABs ? The guy is 22 and has hit wherever he's been. All young hitters struggle with the curveball. If Milledge is so underwhelming, how did he post a rookie OPS higher than Rollins and Utley ? And his fielding hardly hurt the Mets, he looks shaky but his range was certainly an upgrade over Shawn Green.

Carlos Gomez is not ready to contribute on the major league level. He doesn't even hit that well in the minors, he only "projects" as a good OF with his speed and physical ability. He should be nowhere near Shea come April. By rushing him, they're killing what chance he has to become a good player.

Ryan Church is basically a younger Shawn Green. Yippee !

Jon

just for you cowboy.

.287 .360 .506 .866
AVG OBP SLG OPS
.265 .341 .513 .854
AVG OBP SLG OPS
.250 .309 . 395 .704

one is Beltran and one is Church one is Milledge

stat vs right handed pitching

wanna hazzard a guess which one is which?

Does actual performance mean anything?

PS in trying to be fair.

396 AB for Beltran
124 for Milledge
352 for Church.

Church /Beltran and Milledge in that order.

Does everyone just ignore defense when it comes to roster moves?

Defense should be every catcher's number one priority. Schneider is vastly superior to LoDuca and Estrada behind the dish. Sure, Estrada has a better stick, but he's not that much better. And do we really want to rely on another veteran coming off of surgery, because that worked out awesome last season. Having a good defensive catcher can have a very positive impact on a pitching staff. Plus, a Schneider/Castro platoon will provide just as good, if not better, offense than LoDuca or Estrada alone would provide.

Look up Church's stats. He had a solid season last year in cavernous RFK. He's definitely an upgrade over Green offensively, and is a HUGE upgrade over him defensively. He also can play CF, where his numbers translate well. The fact that he is an established LH CF could make him a more attractive option to some teams than Milledge.

Anyway, just looking at how this move upgrades the team from last year, Church is better offensively and defensively than Green and a Schneider/Castro platoon is much better defensively than LoDuca and should be better offensively as well. LoDuca's offensive prowess is really overrated.

keith

stop making sense.

not a good thing with those who have "baseball knowledge"

Oh, I see. So what Lastings Milledge was in his rookie season is what he's going to be for his entire career, right ? Talented 22 year olds never improve at anything...ever. That really hurts your case for the wonderful Carlos Gomez:

.233/.288/.304 in 2007

I guess he's doomed, right ? He sucked at the plate last year, so he'll never improve. And Gomez NEVER hit like Milledge in the minors. There's no track record of being a good hitter, as there is with Milledge.

What else ya got ?

Milledge can't hit a curve, but neither can Beltran!

Church is the MAIN part of the Church/Gomez platoon. Gomez gets TLC by only hitting vs left-handed pitching and will play 25% of the games.

Church is the clear upgrade in right and is 29 years old.

He is a better hitter and fielder than Milledge PLUS we get an upgrade over Estrada defensively atT CATCHER.

I posted his numbers and they are excellent vs right handers.

A horrible trade?

not to me despite my lack of baseball knowledge!!

This move helps the team this year without hurting beyond. The team, and baseball, obviously regard Gomez and Martinez more than Milledge.

Church, if kept, is an upgrade over Green and adds a LH stick to our lineup while improving the D in RF. If traded, I assume it will be for a starter. Minnesota wants MLB ready players. Church is cheap, his stats translate great to CF, and I think he's better than Crisp and Melky. If the Yanks and Sox balk, the Twins may be interested. He's an attractive option for a smaller market team looking for a cheap, under 30, productive player.

And Jon, Gomez has a bigger frame and projects to fill out more than Milledge. He also has a better arm, is faster, and plays better defense. The Mets were able to develop Reyes, so they probably believe they can develop Gomez. Players like Gomez, who are very toolsy and raw, can't be evaluated by stats alone. Recent examples would be Alex Rios and Hanley Ramirez (not even insinuating Gomez will be as good as either, just saying though.)

Numerous projections have Milledge as a more productive player than Church in 2008. AND he's 6 years younger. And his potential is MUCH higher than Church's.

This move is much worse if the Mets decide to keep Church, I'd rather pursue Japanese OF Kosuke Fukudome now. Much better upside (Bobby Abreu) than Church. Gomez would be lucky to hit .240 and sport an OPS approaching .700 next season.

You can get hung up on "tools" if you want. I'll stick to consistent production over every level of organized baseball, as Milledge has produced. Where has he not hit ? Nowhere. Good hitters learn to adapt to the better pitching when they're promoted - that's why they are called "good hitters."

Estrada is a better hitter than Schneider, and his throwing would have been improved now that he received surgery for the elbow injury he played through in 2007.

Assessing this trade is as simple as knowing the sport. Awful move by Omar.

keith

i did not realize Church played 41 games in CF.

spinning him off in a Santana, Bedard deal or Haren deal makes a lot of sense since it looked like teams had soured on Milledge as a propect. Milledge lost some value due to on field performance/ demenor and off-field activities.

You know how those baseball guys hate surprises. Lastings was always a surprise waiting to happen..

Schneider batted .244 against lefthanded pitching.
Estrada hit .263 and much better against right handers.
Schneider is better defensively, but can't get anywhere near Estrada offensively even in his best years. If defense counted for the mets soooo much, why did they go after Torrealba, who threw out fewer runners than Loduca. And, Loduca wasn't stellar.
As for Church, he is not a young Shawn Green. Anyone remember Green's numbers at 29 or 30. Church beat the Mets last year a couple times so Minaya probably became enamored with him. Right now, Church is better than Milledge, but this is a deal they will likely regret unless they can leverage some of these guys for Santana, Haren or some other top-notch pitcher.

According to the curriculum for GM 101, in every trade you should always strive to get the best player. II guess Minaya failed that class since, in this trade, the player with the greatest upside is clearly Milledge.

So Minaya has traded one of our few major league ready propsects for a couple of serviceable players. He would have been much better off giving LoDuca the three years he was asking for, IMO.

The larger issue here, perhaps, is that in his 3+ years Minaya has failed to build an organization capable of developing quality major leaguers through our farm system. His trading of Milledge in this deal is an admission, it seems to me, that Minaya himself overvalued the player.

My biggest disappointment with Minaya is that he was supposed to be a great evaluator of talent. I still like Pelfrey and Humber, but based on what I have seen so far they do not project as the frontline starters their high draft position would seem to warrant.

Which leads me once again to ask, why trade one of your best propects when you have so few to begin with unless you are getting back the best player in the deal? I can only conclude that he was dumping Milledge for whatever he could get, perhaps because he thought he was a bad influence on Reyes.

Very disappointing.

Jon from NJ -- you called me out by saying I do not understand the sport. I like this trade. Here is why:

The Mets want a starter from a team that needs a cheap, proven CFer. They all balked at Milledge because they do not think he is proven enough, even though his ceiling is higher than, say Coco Crisp or Melkey Cabrera, they covet those guys more due to somewhat reliability as well as better defense than what Milledge showed last year. Ryan Church also falls into that category.

I know you think it is crazy, but these GMs PREFER Ryan Church over Milledge, because they don't care about the upside differential -- they want a CFer that won't fall on his face in return for their pitcher, as well as a prospect and a pitcher. To them Milledge is also a prospect.

Wait before destroying this deal. Omar is getting Erik Bedard, Mark it down, it will happen. Church is going along with possibly Pelfrey or maybe Humber/Heilman, and also probably a Mulvey. The O's will do that deal. Then you have Schneider, Bedard for Pelfrey, Milledge and Mulvey -- not a rip-off but if you know anything about Bedard, well worth it.

Estrada could have had surgery to replace his arm with Robocop's arm and Schneider would still be better defensively than Estrada. Estrada is a better hitter, but Schneider is the better thrower/receiver. Personally, I prefer to have a stronger defensive catcher. Unless you're trotting out Mikey P. then it's always advisable to be strong defensively up the middle. With Schneider/Castro, Reyes, Castillo, and Beltran we will be. But knowing the sport as you do, I'm sure you're aware of this old adage.

I personally like Lastings better than Gomez as well, but it is undeniable that his stock has fallen around baseball and within the Mets organization. The Mets organizational strength is in the OF so they decided to acquire two starters, one who could be seen as more attractive than Milledge in a trade for a pitcher, for the cost of one prospect. Schneider and Church won't make any all star teams, but they are solid players who will contribute to a winning ballclub.

We have enough offense and with Alou and Delgado we have enough one dimensional mashers. Church and Schneider are dynamic, well-rounded players. Meaning, they can contribute to the team in ways other than at the plate.

Lastly, there is way too much attention paid to offense. Schneider is superior defensively to both LoDuca and Estrada, and Church better on D than Green and Millz. It's not like last year's starters or the projected starters at C or in RF were monster producers. It's not like we're turning our backs on elite offensive talents here.

There's no guarantee that this team acquires a starting pitcher. Improving the defense behind the plate and in the OF could be a subtle way of improving our current staff that, as currently situated, contains 2-3 young pitchers and is a flyball staff as a whole.

Good talent but too much to give up for him....u guys are fooled by this mickey mouse organization. The Mets will never win again!! They turn everything they touch into bronze not gold! Terrible move..to give this kid up for Bedard or Blanton is a joke!

I'll agree with you if Omar spins this into the acqusition of an ace pitcher, because I would have dealt Milledge for Haren or Bedard. But short of that, it's an awful move. And it's not just fans who think this way:

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Nats score big with Milledgeposted: Friday, November 30, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry
filed under: New York Mets, Washington Nationals

Lastings Milledge is still one of the better young outfield prospects in the game. By dealing him for an awful player in Brian Schneider, the Mets sold low on a former first-round pick with a lot of upside and committed two years and too much money to a catcher who can't hit.

The Mets get ... nothing, or close to it. Schneider will earn $10.3 million over the next two years to sit behind the plate when the rules call for it, and to make 300-odd outs at the plate while hitting .230/.320/.330 or thereabouts. He is the definition of replacement level -- his offensive production was roughly as valuable as what Guillermo Quiroz did in eleven plate appearances for Texas last year -- and paying him $10 million is bad enough. Giving up something of value to acquire that contract is horrible. It would be better to pay Johnny Estrada $3-4 million to be bad for one year than Schneider over $10 million to be worse for two years.

There's a small silver lining for the Mets in the acquisition of Ryan Church, a capable platoon bat in left or right field if you have a right-handed caddy for him. Unlike Schneider, he has value on a big league roster, but even swapping Milledge straight-up for Church wouldn't make sense because of Church's struggles against lefties, his long history of minor injuries, his age and his expense as a super-two player this winter.

One more thing. Schneider is not the starter. He will be platooning with Castro. Those two will be a VERY productive platoon. The Mets should expect better production at catcher than most teams.

FIRE MINAYA and SELL THE TEAM!!!!

Omar is an absolute joke. We are looking at 4th place with NO PITCHING and a bunch of quitters on this team.

Keith -

Nope. Listen to Omar's conference call - Schneider is his everyday catcher.

Of course Schneider is going to play everyday, he's the LH part of the platoon. I would be shocked if he played against lefties and if Castro didn't see more playing time this season. I don't see a LoDuca/Castro time split with these two.

Why is anyone confused about this trade? The fact is, Omar has a horrible track record when it comes to trades. Omar is an overrated GM who's only skill shown so far is to overspend on some free agents with the owner's money. Imagine the bullpen we could have had last year if he didn't trade away every young live arm we have for guys on the scrapheap. Or do we need to reexamine his Grady Sizemore trade with the Expos?

Omar is clueless, it's time for him to go. Unfortunately, I think upper management is very committed to him.

I dunno, I think he did a nice job trading for: Nady, Maine, Perez, Duque, LoDuca, Delgado, Gotay, and Castillo.

While the yankees are trading for SANTANA - tHE METS ARE TRADING FOR rYAN CHURCH AND SCNIEDER - FOR THERE best prospect !! what a joke in flushing - oh yeah trivia question

What team blew the biggest 1st place lead in the history of baseball ? .......... HAHAHAHAHA

HEy Vinny got new rings??? Us Sox own you.,......Got kids??? They have seen ZERO RINGS...My 7 year old has seen two.

One of them after the biggest COLLAPSE in the HISTORY OF SPORTS.....Up 3-0 and winning in the 9th!

Yanks are a tarnished bunch of overpaid has beens!

Enjoy watching us dance like PAPS for years to come!

Bwhahahahahahhaha

can you say Kazmir for zambrano

Omar is obviously going to trade church - cant see him actually adding a white guy to the roster

If we don't trade Church for something else then this deal stinks. he batted .229 against lefties not .244 and struck out 27% of his AB's. Yeah he is 29, but has only been in the bigs for 3 years, and his 144 games last season was a career high. He has no speed. Yeah we need a lefty, but this is not the guy for Lastings.

He was good at Shea last year. He hit .282 with risp, .440 with runner on 3rd less then 2 outs, but .205 with guy on 3rd and 2 outs.

Against Atl .283, Marlins .314 and Philly .236 and against us .314. Maybe we got him so he could stop beating us?

Schneider was not very good against the rest of the NL East and hit .202 with risp...

This deal blows. We got older in the field

I'm listening to a replay of the conference call and, is it me, or does Omar sound really defensive about this move? He sounds to me like someone trying to convince himself that the tattoo he got on his face when he was drunk is really cool, when he knows that it makes him look ridiculous.

The Mets may have gotten Church, but the Nats GM took Omar to SCHOOL!

As a Yankee fan I am shocked at the backlash Minaya has gotten. He has turned your team into a contender - did you forget about that? He brought in Pedro which was as much about getting talent as credibility. Beltran came in large part because of Pedro (and because the Yankees idnt want him, remember he went to the Yanks and sai he woul take less to be in the Bronx - sorry had to throw that in) and brought in Delgado who ha a good year in the Muts NL Championship series year. Oliver Perez was one of the best trades of the decade and Maine has turned out very well. - True there is the kazmir eal, but from what I read the mets thought his delivery was going to make him injury prone.

As for this deal, it is apparent that Milledge had little value on the trade front and that the mets wanted to get rid of him. Teams knew that and were low-balling the Mets. We do not knoweverything that goes on in the club house but I have a feeling that this was as much addition by subtraction as it was anything else.

Also, this could be a prelude to a bigger dealwith the Twins or A's. Omar may plan to trade Gomez and have Church take his place in the line-up. Wait and see what he does. Watching from the outside with a somewhat objective view I see Omar as one of the more creative owners out there and wouldnt be surprised to see him take more steps to strenghten this team

What happened to Estrada?

"Johan Santana has company on the trade market. According to league sources, the A's, within the past couple days, have begun calling teams to seek interest in star pitcher Dan Haren, one of the better right-handers in the American League.

From the Mets, among those expected to interest Oakland include pitchers Mike Pelfrey and Kevin Mulvey and outfielders Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez."

just say no if they ask for F Mart.

I'd do the other 3 with reluctance.

Let's see what happens. Potential, talent, whatever it was that made Milledge a valuable commodity -- it means nothing given his crappy attitude. Getting rid of him is addition by subtraction. Now I really would have tried to package Milledge elsewhere and concentrate on pitching, but getting a good catcher like Schneider and solid OF like Church for a guy who may not put it together or mature is a good deal. BUT -- are these two guys ideal given the Mets' needs? Probably not. Schneider is a good defensive catcher with some pop and has similar numbers to LoDuca, so that's not the worst thing. Maybe these two guys will thrive getting away from dull RFK and coming to the cauldron of NYC. Who knows... not a bad trade right now. Just glad to get rid of the thuggy Milledge. So now what happens to Estrada?

I don't really get this one either, unless it's just a precursor to a bigger, upcoming deal. I'll wait to pass judgement until after we see what pans out. I will say this -- UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD CARLOS GOMEZ BE MOVED! Neither should Fernando Martinez. The two of them flanking Beltran in center will be quite formidable -- offensely and defensively. Also, as Lennon pointed out, the Mets already have two 15-game winners in their rotation, so I don't see why there is such a panic for a front-line starter -- they already have two.

Great trade. I live in DC & get to see Schneider everyday.....calls a great game, very good arm, hits enough to hit 7th or 8th. Church is solid and will get better. Milledge was posion. Gald to see him go.

So Milledge's immense potential as a hitter is meaningless because of a rap song ? Great stuff.

Milledge's damaging effect to the team because of his immaturity has been overblown to the point of absurdity. What are we talking about here, a rap song and raising his arm after a HR ? Professional athletes today are shooting people and fighting dogs for money, and Milledge gets crucified for THIS ? What a joke.

It'll be painful watching Milledge next season line those 84 MPH fastball from Carlos Silva into the bleachers.

What a Joke alot of you are.. For the past month all you did was bash Minaya about him trading for latin players, and today when he makes one trade, that is a precurser to more trades all you can do is bash him. If you took the time to even read or listen to the confrence call, this was done to one hold onto their prospects so they can make a push for a #1 starter, and secondly, with Ryan Church it will allow the Mets to trade either Gomez or Martinez while the other can recieve more seasoning in AAA. As for Milliage, tell me what has he done in his extended time in New York... When he arrived he was a spark, but as time went on Milliage was lousey at fielding, struck out more often then he hit, Will Millage hit the concensus says he will but he will be no more then an average fielder. As for the catching situation, only time will tell who our catcher will be, either it is going to be Estrada or Schnieder or someone else. To say the Mets sold themselves short, I have to disagree, one Milliage did more to lower his value, plus if you are so upset about this trade where were you all when Minaya tried hard to hold on to Milliage the last few seasons. In fact could have had the #1 starter if Minaya had trade Milliage before we all saw what a mistake Steve Phillips made, drafted a big offensive hitter, but an average at best fielder.. So stop your whinning and lets see what happens by the end of next weeks winter meetings, and before the start of spring training.

Hey don't blame Omar for the Kazmir deal. He wasn't the GM at the time. Before making judgments let's at least wait out the meetings next week. Typical emotional fans giving up before the dust settles. This team just had the biggest collapse in baseball history. A shakeup is needed.

Well get ready mets fans, it sounds like Gomez, Heilman and either Pelfrey or Humber is going for Eric Bedard, thoughts? Sound like Church is playing everyday, sounds like mets will sign Dotel to replace Heilman thoughts?

If true I like it. Still things are constantly changing so tomorrow the news can be exactly what you weren't expecting.

So I'm supposed to back off Omar for making a horrendous deal because he traded for white players ? Do you have any idea how ignorant that is ?

What did you expect out of Milledge, a 22 year old OF hitting 8th, when he wasn't given regular playing time ? He posted about a .790 OPS, which is respectable for a player of his age in the situation he was in.

The Mets would be insane to make a trade for a #1 starter now, it'll completely cripple their farm system. Why even trade Milledge if you're planning on dealing one or both of Gomez/Martinez for a starter ?

Omar's talk about "speed and defense" rings hollow, IMO. Milledge, for one, is faster than Church. Omar is reacting to September 2007 way too much. The Mets played poor defense in September 2007, but it was not a consistent problem all season. Omar is absolutely going nuts over Brian Schnieder's defense - when did catching defense hurt the Mets last season ? Was it a consistent problem ? Hardly. And I'm no Lo Duca fan, I wanted to go with an Estrada/Castro platoon. Other than De Felice dropping a popup and not throwing out a runner in a 10th inning against Philly in September (and he was only in there because moron Lo Duca got himself tossed in the 9th), when did defense from the catching position kill the Mets ? Schneider's "awesome defense" will hardly make up for his meek production (82 OPS+) at the plate. Consistent offense was a problem for the Mets last season - a much bigger one than most people would have you believe. Now, the Mets are an Alou injury away from having Church, Schneider, Chavez, and the pitcher hitting 6-9.

Scary stuff. But I'd expect no better from a bad GM, which Omar has now revealed himself to be.

So I'm supposed to back off Omar for making a horrendous deal because he traded for white players ? Do you have any idea how ignorant that is ?

What did you expect out of Milledge, a 22 year old OF hitting 8th, when he wasn't given regular playing time ? He posted about a .790 OPS, which is respectable for a player of his age in the situation he was in.

The Mets would be insane to make a trade for a #1 starter now, it'll completely cripple their farm system. Why even trade Milledge if you're planning on dealing one or both of Gomez/Martinez for a starter ?

Omar's talk about "speed and defense" rings hollow, IMO. Milledge, for one, is faster than Church. Omar is reacting to September 2007 way too much. The Mets played poor defense in September 2007, but it was not a consistent problem all season. Omar is absolutely going nuts over Brian Schnieder's defense - when did catching defense hurt the Mets last season ? Was it a consistent problem ? Hardly. And I'm no Lo Duca fan, I wanted to go with an Estrada/Castro platoon. Other than De Felice dropping a popup and not throwing out a runner in a 10th inning against Philly in September (and he was only in there because moron Lo Duca got himself tossed in the 9th), when did defense from the catching position kill the Mets ? Schneider's "awesome defense" will hardly make up for his meek production (82 OPS+) at the plate. Consistent offense was a problem for the Mets last season - a much bigger one than most people would have you believe. Now, the Mets are an Alou injury away from having Church, Schneider, Chavez, and the pitcher hitting 6-9.

Scary stuff. But I'd expect no better from a bad GM, which Omar has now revealed himself to be.

Jon, this is an excellent point, and a valid concern. If Alou goes down, then the lineup becomes very LH dominant and I could see them having some issues scoring runs.

Again, I'm not as quick to jump on the "Omar is a bad GM" bandwagon. I'd rather try and see it from his perspective and figure out why he made this move.

I doubt they will trade both Gomez and Martinez. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Church who was traded for an arm instead of either player. Also, I think Martinez is pretty much untouchable. It's also very early in the offseason, and I would hope this is the first of a few tweaks to the roster Omar makes this offseason. And who knows, maybe they view someone in our system as a diamond in the rough, someone like Caleb Stewart. Yes, I'm stretching a bit here, but who knows.

As for a catcher's defense, LoDuca stunk behind the plate. He was not a great receiver, he had a poor arm, and he had slow feet behind the plate. Additionally, he was HORRIBLE at blocking the plate and taking a throw from the outfield on a play at the plate. How many times did we see a one hopper from RF just bounce off his chest or glove?

Lastly, regarding Schneider's offense. LoDuca had an OPS+ of 80 last season. While he may hold down a 99 OPS+ for his career, he's going to be 36 next year so you can't really expect him to return to form. Estrada has a career OPS+ of 86, and while he's only going to be 32 (a year older than Schneider), he is coming off elbow surgery. Additionally, Estrada's OPS+ is less impressive when you take a look at his career (not that it's impressive to begin with.) He posted an OPS+ of 113 in 2003 and has not been over 100 since then. The closest he has come to that number is when he posted a 92 OPS+ in his only season in Arizona, a great hitter's park.

So what does this all mean? LoDuca has been a better hitter than Schneider throughout his career, no doubt, but he's going to be 36 and is coming off a poor, injury riddled season. Estrada also receives a slight edge over Schneider offensively, however he is coming off elbow surgery and to be honest, his offensive prowess is largely overhyped. From Rob Neyer: "Since 2004 his numbers aren't nearly as impressive: .309 on-base percentage, .406 slugging." In short, Schneider is a definite defensive upgrade (how much so is hard to quantify, but I think we can all agree he is the best defensively of the 3 discussed here) and when you take a closer look, he isn't much of an offensive downgrade. Not to mention he is younger than LoDuca and has proven more durable than Estrada. A platoon of Estrada and Castro is nice in theory, but in practice, do you want to rely on two injury prone catchers? There would be a chance we'd be seeing a lot of Mike DeFilice.

Ok, this is really the last point on the catching situation. We're all forgetting that Castro is going to be getting more playing time this year, despite what Minaya may say. He re-signed for 2M a year, so I think he'll definitely be seeing time against tough lefties.

Milledge, 22, reportedly was offered with Aaron Heilman and Phillip Humber to the Orioles in a proposal that was rejected. Including Milledge did not make it more desirable to Baltimore, but one baseball official said, "You put Church or Gomez in place of Milledge in an offer and it might be a more attractive offer."

Milledge's value declined. if the Mets are able to get a starter it will include Gomez as the position player.

Offer Gomez ( not FMart) Pelfrey and Heilman to the Orioles for Bedard. If they say no make the same offer and add Humber for Haren. I don't want Blanton for that package.

If they say no then just stop. There's no one out there I want.

I am not a Metsie fan but my word, what are they doing? Omar has lost his mind. Milledge was villified for a rap recording?????? He high fived fans and was killed???? I thought he was the next great thing???? So much for that. Lastings Milledge will come back to haunt the Mets. Brian Schneider and Ryan Church??? This will be looked at in ten years as the 2nd worst trade in Mets history. Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi is number 1. Pitching is what everyone in MLB needs. Not washed up utility players the Mets just traded for. This is why they are the Mets.

Actually, the Tom Seaver trade was the worst in Mets history.

As a Yankee fan I am shocked at the backlash Minaya has gotten. He has turned your team into a contender - did you forget about that? He brought in Pedro which was as much about getting talent as credibility. Beltran came in large part because of Pedro (and because the Yankees idnt want him, remember he went to the Yanks and sai he woul take less to be in the Bronx - sorry had to throw that in) and brought in Delgado who ha a good year in the Muts NL Championship series year. Oliver Perez was one of the best trades of the decade and Maine has turned out very well. - True there is the kazmir eal, but from what I read the mets thought his delivery was going to make him injury prone.

ONLY TWO QUESTIONS:
DO YOU REALLY BELIVED THAT BORAS OFFERED TO ONE PARTICULAR TEAM ONE OF HIS CLIENTS TO PLAY FOR THEM FOR LESS MONEY?; BORAS ?
WITHOUT OFFENSE
HOW OLD ARE YOU?
LET ME EXPLAING TO YOU HOW THIS WORK.KID
1ST TO BE A BORAS CLIENT BORAS ASK THE PLAYERS TO FALLOW ONE SIMPLE RULE; HE IS THE ONE WHO IS IN CHARGED OF THE CONTRACTS; HE DECIDED WHERE HIS CLIENT IS GOING TO PLAY BECAUSE HE GETS A % OF THE CONTRACT.,
AND WELLCOME TO REALITY
BORAS ALWAYS TRY TO MAKE MORE MONEY AND ALWAYS GOES WITH THE MONEY.
IS BORAS RULE AND THE DOORS ARE OPEN; OK KID
I DON'T WANT TO HURT YOUR FELLINGS BUT WHEN ANY PERSON SAY THAT BORAS WENT WITH ONE OF HIS CLIENTS AND OFFERED TO A TEAM TO PLAY FOR LESS MONEY.,; PEOPLE WHO KNOWS A LITTLE BET ABOUT THIS GAME AND THEY KNOW WHO IS SCOT BORAS, WE REALLYTHINK THAT PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT ANYTHING LIKE THAT IS POSIBLE ARE REALLY STUPID.
BELTRAN DIDN'T CHOSE THE METS BECAUSE THE YANKEES OR ASTROS DIDN'T WANT HIM; HE CHOSE THE METS BECAUSE THE METS GAVE HIM 119 MILL DOLLARS; IS SIMPLE.
DON'T FORGET THAT BORAS AND BELTRAN DIDN'T EVEN GIVE THE YANKEES THE TIME THAT THEY ASK FOR IT.
BRIAN CASHMAN ASK FOR TIME TO CLEAR UP A LITTLE BET THEIR PAY ROLL.
BRIAN CASHMAN SAID THAT IN PUBLIC SO I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YANKEES FANS ALWAYS THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE 12 YEARS OLD KIDS.; METS FAN DIDN'T EVEN MENTION THAT AROD WANTED TO GO THE METS AND THE METS FOR THE SECOND TIME IN HIS CAREAR TOLD HIM THAT THE METS DIDN'T WANT HIM.
BECAUSE THIS A BUSSINESS AND MONEY IS THE ONE WHO RUN THIS BUSSINES; IS ALWAYS THE MONEY.
ABOUT THE MILLEDGE TRADE.,; JUST COMPARED CHURCH NUMBERS WITH MELKY CABRERA NUMBERS AND YOU WILL FIND SAMETHING REALLY INTERSTING.
AND DON'T FORGET THAT THE ONLY REASON SANTANA IS NOT GOING TO THE METS IS BECAUSE THE METS DOESN'T WANT TO TRADE MAINE

As a Yankee fan I am shocked at the backlash Minaya has gotten. He has turned your team into a contender - did you forget about that? He brought in Pedro which was as much about getting talent as credibility. Beltran came in large part because of Pedro (and because the Yankees idnt want him, remember he went to the Yanks and sai he woul take less to be in the Bronx - sorry had to throw that in) and brought in Delgado who ha a good year in the Muts NL Championship series year. Oliver Perez was one of the best trades of the decade and Maine has turned out very well. - True there is the kazmir eal, but from what I read the mets thought his delivery was going to make him injury prone.

ONLY TWO QUESTIONS:
DO YOU REALLY BELIVED THAT BORAS OFFERED TO ONE PARTICULAR TEAM ONE OF HIS CLIENTS TO PLAY FOR THEM FOR LESS MONEY?; BORAS ?
WITHOUT OFFENSE
HOW OLD ARE YOU?
LET ME EXPLAING TO YOU HOW THIS WORK.KID
1ST TO BE A BORAS CLIENT BORAS ASK THE PLAYERS TO FALLOW ONE SIMPLE RULE; HE IS THE ONE WHO IS IN CHARGED OF THE CONTRACTS; HE DECIDED WHERE HIS CLIENT IS GOING TO PLAY BECAUSE HE GETS A % OF THE CONTRACT.,
AND WELLCOME TO REALITY
BORAS ALWAYS TRY TO MAKE MORE MONEY AND ALWAYS GOES WITH THE MONEY.
IS BORAS RULE AND THE DOORS ARE OPEN; OK KID
I DON'T WANT TO HURT YOUR FELLINGS BUT WHEN ANY PERSON SAY THAT BORAS WENT WITH ONE OF HIS CLIENTS AND OFFERED TO A TEAM TO PLAY FOR LESS MONEY.,; PEOPLE WHO KNOWS A LITTLE BET ABOUT THIS GAME AND THEY KNOW WHO IS SCOT BORAS, WE REALLYTHINK THAT PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT ANYTHING LIKE THAT IS POSIBLE ARE REALLY STUPID.
BELTRAN DIDN'T CHOSE THE METS BECAUSE THE YANKEES OR ASTROS DIDN'T WANT HIM; HE CHOSE THE METS BECAUSE THE METS GAVE HIM 119 MILL DOLLARS; IS SIMPLE.
DON'T FORGET THAT BORAS AND BELTRAN DIDN'T EVEN GIVE THE YANKEES THE TIME THAT THEY ASK FOR IT.
BRIAN CASHMAN ASK FOR TIME TO CLEAR UP A LITTLE BET THEIR PAY ROLL.
BRIAN CASHMAN SAID THAT IN PUBLIC SO I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YANKEES FANS ALWAYS THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE 12 YEARS OLD KIDS.; METS FAN DIDN'T EVEN MENTION THAT AROD WANTED TO GO THE METS AND THE METS FOR THE SECOND TIME IN HIS CAREAR TOLD HIM THAT THE METS DIDN'T WANT HIM.
BECAUSE THIS A BUSSINESS AND MONEY IS THE ONE WHO RUN THIS BUSSINES; IS ALWAYS THE MONEY.
ABOUT THE MILLEDGE TRADE.,; JUST COMPARED CHURCH NUMBERS WITH MELKY CABRERA NUMBERS AND YOU WILL FIND SAMETHING REALLY INTERSTING.
AND DON'T FORGET THAT THE ONLY REASON SANTANA IS NOT GOING TO THE METS IS BECAUSE THE METS DOESN'T WANT TO TRADE MAINE

What?

Posted by Anonymous | November 30, 2007 14:39 This team is a JOKE....FIRE OMAR, FIRE RANDOLPH, SELL THE TEAM.....

Biggest collapse in the history of the sport and now we trade our number one chip for a hack OF....We have NO PITCHING!!!

What a joke organization. Omar is a LOSER !!!!!!!

***Excellent post, 'Anonymous'!!!!!!!!!!!

My exact sentiments, couldn't have said it better! The wilpons need to sell the organization!

Nats fan here, just seeing what Mets fan's opinion of the trade was. Don't be sold too much on Church's defense. He was regularly taken out in the 7th inning because he was a liability. From a hitting standpoint, he has not been a power hitter and the Nats tried to send him down to winter ball to get some more work. Schneider is very good defensive catcher, so he should help in that aspect.

I'm not sure Schneider and Church is such a big upgrade over LoDuca and Green, whom the Mets could have kept without trading Milledge.

But, Minaya has proven us wrong before. A lot of people didn't like the Cameron for Nady trade when it was made, and look how good Nady was...Omar also brought in Oliver Perez and John Maine for next to nothing. So I have faith in Minaya and his talent evaluation.

Still, the Mets have decided to revamp the team due to its September collapse, but ironically they've replaced the only two players - Green and LoDuca - who hit consistently well in September.