Bush: Polls like 'poof of air,' U.S. on the high ground

by Mark Silva

President Bush, reminded that he is headed tonight to perhaps the one region of the world where he remains a popular figure – Africa – was asked in a pre-voyage interview if America can still claim “the moral high ground.’’

“Absolutely. Absolutely. We believe in human rights and human dignity,’’ said Bush, explaining in this same interview with the BBC why he plans to veto the bill banning “waterboarding,’’ that interrogation practice that simulates drowing.

As for the polls that guage his popularity here and abroad, though – Bush suggested that these are nothing but “like a poof of air.’’ What matters, he said, are “results… I hope, by now, people have learned that I'm not one of these guys that really gives a darn about elite opinion.’’

The president sat for this interview in the library of the White House this week with Matt Frei of BBC World News America, who opened with a reminder that Bush is “famous for saying that you don't believe in opinion polls.’’

“Yes,’’ Bush said.

“Do you have any idea how you rate in the countries that you're going to be visiting in Africa?’’ Frei asked.

“No, sir, I don't,’’ Bush said.

“Well, I've got news for you -- and it's good news: You rate pretty well -- sort of, in the average 80s,’’ the journalist said. “Is that why you're going to a part of the world -- where you're still very popular?

“I go where needed,’’ said Bush, embarking this evening on a six-day tour, his second in Africa. “No, I'm going there because I've got a firm, heartfelt commitment to the continent of Africa -- and had ever since I became president. It's in our interests, national interests that we help people who are suffering from disease and hunger and hopelessness.

"The only way a radical can recruit is to find somebody that's hopeless,’’ the president said. “I mean, their vision is, like, really dark and dim. Plus I believe to whom much is given, much is required -- and America has been given a lot and it's required of us to help those who suffer. So mine is a mercy -- a mission of mercy and a mission of the cold realism of the world in which we live -- based upon the realism in the world in which we live.’’

Reminded that the Bush administration already has committed $15 billion to the treatment and prevention of AIDS in Africa and is seeking a doubling of that commitment over the next five years, the president was asking why he doesn’t “seem to be getting a lot of credit for it.’’

“You know, this is kind of tied to your first question about polls,’’ Bush said. “Polls are nothing more than just like a poof of air. What matters is results.

“And, ultimately, people will be able to make an objective judgment of a president and his administration -- and in this case, a country's commitment,’’ he said. “And so all I care, really, about is the results of the programs.

“I hope by now people have learned that I'm not one of these guys that really gives a darn about elite opinion. What I really care about is, are we saving lives. And in this case, we are.’’

The Chinese government has been saying that the United States is “trapped in Cold War thinking,’’ the reporter told the president.

“Well, I think that's just a brush-back pitch, as we say in baseball,’’ Bush said. “America is trapped in this notion that we care about human life. We respect human dignity -- that's not a trap, that's a belief -- and that many of us in this country recognize that the human condition matters to our own national security.

“See, I happen to believe we're in an ideological struggle. And those who murder the innocent to achieve political objectives are evil people, but they have an ideology. And the only way you can recruit for that ideology is to find hopeless folks…

“And it happens to be in our moral interest. I repeat to you, I believe to whom much is given, much is required. It happens to be a religious notion, but it should be a universal notion, as well. And I believe America's soul is enriched, our spirit is enhanced when we help people who suffer.’’

Noted that the Senate had passed a bill outlawing waterboarding, Bush was asked if his promise to veto the bill does not “send the wrong signal to the rest of the world.’’

“No, look, that's not the reason I'm vetoing the bill,’’ Bush said. “The reason I'm vetoing the bill -- first of all, we have said that whatever we do is for legal -- will be legal. Secondly, they are imposing a set of standards on our intelligence communities in terms of interrogating prisoners that our people will think will be ineffective.

“And to the critics, I ask them this: When we, within the law, interrogate, and get information that protects ourselves and possibly others, and other nations, to prevent attacks, which attack would they have hoped that we wouldn't have prevented? And so the United States will act within the law, and we'll make sure our professionals have the tools necessary to do their job within the law.

“Now, I recognize some say that these terrorists really aren't that big a threat to the United States anymore. I fully disagree. And I think the president must give these professionals, within the law, the necessary tools to protect us. So we're having a debate not only on how you interrogate people, we're having a debate in America on whether or not we ought to be listening to terrorists making phone calls in the United States. And the answer is, darn right we ought to be….

“It should send the signal that America is going to respect law, but is going to take actions necessary to protect ourselves,’’ Bush said.

“Can you honestly say, Mr. President, that today America still occupies the moral high ground?’’ the BBC asked the president.

“We believe in the human condition,’’ Bush said. “We believe in freedom. And we're willing to take the lead; we're willing to ask nations to do hard things; we're willing to accept responsibilities.

“Yes, no question in my mind, this is a nation that's a force for good,’’ the president said. “And history will judge the decisions made during this period of time as necessary decisions. And I firmly believe that we are laying the foundation for peace…

“And so, yes,’’ Bush said. “I'm not only happy to defend decisions, I'm confident that they will lead to a better tomorrow.’’