Rip Van Winkle: What's become of the country we call home?

Interesting and thought-provoking piece! It'll take a long time to regain the high road re: good will with other countries, ethics, and high officials simply following the law once this Bush gang is gone. They've stolen a heck of a lot from the American people; busted up many places. It'll be up to the good people of this great and proud nation to repair the damage. We'll all need a lot of prayers to get through these dark times until the next Presidential election.

Hooray for Dave Bromberg! Its sad and absurd, however, that it takes singers, etc. to point out the obvious moral and intellectual vacuousness of what appears to be a majority of U.S. adults.

David Bromberg has always been a special performer for me. I recall his breakout dates in the early 70's at the old Quiet Knight - the only artist I'd ever seen who could begin a haunting ballad at the mike, step down from the stage and continue a riveting performance through tables startled into utter silence. I saw his many big band shows, and loved the fact that for years he shared the city with me as he studied violin-making. I saw him again this past winter at Dominican University, and we were both older, grayer, a troublesome pound or two over, and he was still on top of his art. And now he's reached a sort of pinnacle and I missed it! Bromberg with his Martin guitar is now a weapon of mass destructioncapable of scaring knuckleheads out the door. And here all along I just thought he was a master guitarist with a conscience and the courage to point the way.

Well, gosh, we saw this coming at least three years ago, but the Tribune still vigorously supported the Administration working so hard to take away our freedom.

Sorry, but when it came time to stand up and be counted, the Tribune walked out of the auditorium too.

"We all went home last night, some a little earlier than others, some disturbed by what they had heard, and some refreshed with the inspiration that freedom of speech sometimes surfaces in the damnedest of places. It can catch us unawares when we seek escape from the real world and comfort in song. But there is no comfort in thinking clearly about what has become of liberty in a dangerous world, in the land outside the darkened music hall."

That was beautifully expressed Mark. But what's even more disconcerting to me is the knowledge that too many amongst us won't be happy until all music stops everywhere.

Trite and cliched piece. It intrigues me that when someone screeches at a conservative from an audience that the protester's behavior is a commendable exercise of free speech but choosing to quietly walk out on an musician when they try to foist their political nonsense on a (I presume, paying) audience is intolerance. There is enough of this irrational discourse in the free media without having to support it financially (or sit through it when you set aside time for entertainment).

I am sorry if Bromberg can no longer recognize his country but that is a failing of his viewpoint not of this country.

RRD

Caesar A'Texas' party is over...there's no beer left...and guess who gets to clean up the mess?

Some days I really wonder, what does America stand for? It seems that it is mostly about money, consumption and the abatment of civil rights in the name of security. However, lets not kid ourselves folks. Bush didn't take this away from us, we gave it away freely. Half of this country elected him, and supported his policies. To whine about it now is disingenuous. The problem is not the "government"..for the government is the people, and we have abdicated our power so thoroughly that we have allowed a small group of idealouges to take over all that we supposedly held dear. It seems we are too busy pursuing some vague "American dream" to realize that happiness is not bought with credit cards, SUV's and material goods. True values are in the heart and mind, and it seems we as a nation have lost sight of that. Our collective emptiness can't be filled by material things. I can only hope it is not a permanent condition.

Isn't Life strange? As we age, things that were so unimportant that we didn't even know they existed in our youth became the most important things in our lives years later. Some "singers" and song writers often do so very well at putting to music the feelings of the moment that we make them "Idols" for the rest of our lives. They, and an old song, help us think back to the days that have past and are nearly forgotten. They help us wonder at, and reconsider our earlier positions on, the importance of things, feelings, and the real meaning of Life. Why are we here? What's it all about? What and who really matter, and why? Children, to include those who never really grew up, always seem to imagine that "if only" such and such, then things would be really different and so much better. Most of us learn that it just doesn't work that way; dreaming and temper tantrums just don't achieve anything. Work does! Hard, constant, sweaty, dirty, day-in-day-out, and smart, work does. Only later do most of us realize, that the little unimportant things of our youth (the things we ignored in our dreams) are critical to society's health and well being, and therefore to us and our loved ones as well. Every generation has its hallmark characteristic(s). Some build, and expand. Some fight, and suffer. Some dream, and destroy. Some do a third, some do two-thirds, some do it all. Isn't Life strange? The BIG dreams take a long, long, long time; and a hell-of-a-lot-a WORK. They don't happen just because they sound good in a song, or because a lot of children think it would be GREAT. It takes smart, hard-nosed, hard working, full-grown, wide-awake Men and Women to build something worthwhile. Men and Women who are, at the same time, bearing and raising children, driving an old car, saving for their children's college education and their own retirement, paying high utility bills, making house mortgage payments, buying food and clothes at Wal-Mart, paying overpriced doctor and hospital bills, saving for a family vacation at the beach, attending teacher-parent conferences, listening to daily news bulletins about this war or that fanatic or this hurricane, etc., etc., etc. Dreamers, singers and song writers, and children, don't think about real Men and Women, or what it really takes to do much of anything.

PS: A Quick Quiz-- Question: Who created G_d?
Answer: Real Men and Women at the end of their ropes.

Mr. Bromberg asks some provocative questions.

It is indeed a brave new world we live in, and each of us has played a part in creating it. To blame President Bush and the Republicans and just leave it at that is more than a bit simplistic and really serves no other purpose other than patting one's self on the back.

Like it or not we are at war. We are at war with Al-Qaida, whose followers think it is pleasing to their God to kill themselves and 3,000 innocent civilians. We are at war with hezbollah, whose leader - A Muslim Cleric - has stated that "our strength lies in the willingness to sacrifice our blood and children".

And Mr. Bromberg might take note of the fact that we are at war with a faith whose Clerics have stated (among other things) that the Holocaust is a hoax and Israel today is led by the grandchildren of Nazis.

Mr. Bromberg does make some good points. And he lives in a free country. The very fact that he said what he said is proof of that.

I find it intriguing how conservatives like RRD can stretch and distort in order to rationalize their behavior and prejudices. David Bromberg was in no way "screeching" with a gentle, 30 year old song about hometown values. Walking out on a performers message that you cannot find it in your heart to tolerate is indeed intolerance.

And describing being against wars based on lies and the torture of prisoners as being somehow "irrational" - I simply have to stop and wonder why these people do not have the courage to stand up for long-time American principals. It is only deep irrational fear of unknown enemies that can blind one to their own failure to recognize what freedom truly means.

always loved his rendition of the Tennessee Waltz the best!

I've been a David Bromberg fan for thirty five years. I'm happy he made his comments, and very happy he is out touring again. Some great American performers unfortunately fly below the radar of our pop culture, performers such as Billy Joe Shaver, the late Clarence Gatemouth Brown, and David Bromberg. If you want to explore America, check out those folks' works.

We all need a breeze today and in comes this zephyr from, of all places, the Potomac. Brilliant.

JSS

While I stand by my intended points, upon review of your comments and my writing, I see that I did not express my views as well as I should have.

1) I did not mean Bromberg when I referred to screeching. My intention was to refer to (for example) those people who disrupt guests speaking to our Congress, officials invited to speak at commencement exercises, and other circumstances where someone "from the audience" screeches out their unrequested opinion over that of the person the audience came to see. While I find Bromberg's opinions to be like fingernails on a blackboard, I would never slander his vocal talent with the term screeching.

2) Walking out on anybody whose opinion you find unworthy is an honorable act of expression, particularly when expressing your contrary opinion in a vocal manner would be offensive to a large body of people who came for reasons other than a political harangue. Intolerence would be an attempt to stifle someone else's right to express their opinion but no one is obligated to listen to anyone.

3) The war was not based on lies and your continued belief in this is proof of your irrationality (and of Bromberg's). Overall, this country is a better place than it was in the 60s and 70s and if he (and you) cannot see that, that is not the country's fault - it is your own.

RRD

I would love to blame Bush for everything but I can not. What I want people here to do when you talk for or against the War. Go to the VA talk to one or two of our heroes home from Iraq. Your eyes will be open to the truth. Our troops are angry they see no end.They see no action to rebuilting Iraq happening. They leave one place after fighting and go to a new area. But then then have to go back to the same place. They are promised they will go home but stop lost stop them. They are redepolyed one two three times and still no end in sight.Their equipment old and not being replaced. And when they do come home they are not recieving the Education,Jobs or the health care they were promised. Now our troops if the Middle East blows like it looks like it might happen. They will be out numbered and in the Middle. We need to change the course in Iraq.We need a Victroy or get the hell out of dodge.

Unfortunately, RRD, we aren't better off than we were in the 60s and 70s. David Bromberg is right to sing, "What has become of my beautiful town?" as a protest to what has become of a once proud and noble country. We have been handed over to people who defend authority not principle.

Thank you to David Bromberg for singing a message of protest. Thank you to Mark Silva for writing this. David Bromberg may ask what society has regained their liberty after losing it, but I continue to hope and believe that we will regain our liberty and hope after losing it to the Bushites and their ilk. Things are bad now, but this isn't the end, our house isn't yet tumbled down (to paraphrase Kaatskill Serenade) - we can and must and will turn things around.

I only fault David Bromberg for being too pessimistic (although since I wasn't there I could be reading this wrong). We will see Bush and the Bushites thrown in prison and we will undo all that they have done to our country. Our message is hope, not despair.

Thanks, Mark Silva, for a great post.

RRD,Terry,
It was a great concert.I would imagine if your boy George Dubya was in charge during Vietnam,we would still be there,and you two would still be backing it.Here's a job for you guys.
HELP WANTED:
NEO CONS-Help wanted for a failing political group.Applicants should want complete control over American politics,even if it requires lying to the American public.Be prepared to "swiftboat"
all opposing viewpoints.Strong disire to start WW3 is required.
RRD,Terry,I bet Sean Hannity will give you an application,good luck my friends.

Dale,I understand your concerns dealing with the VA.I too am a vet,and I hope to god I don't ever have to depend on them.Keep writing your congressmen.Remember that the Einstiens who started this thing in Irag never served.They want war,yet they want someone else to fight it.
I hear alot of republicans saying they support the troops,and the troops believe.Thats bull.My son is a Marine in Iraq,they are not allowed to speak their mind to the press,and I suppose it's a good idea.I told them I would voice my opposition stateside.Marines take orders,thats what they do best.Goodluck Dale.

"How telling it is, here on the rim of the nation's capital, in the darkened hall of The Birchmere, that some can sit for nearly three hours of serenade but cannot pause for a mere few minutes of serious challenge to their views of what is taking place in America today.

"You are the ones who should listen,'' Bromberg drily noted, with a passing farewell to the protesters among his audience"

Well, by walking out they were "challenging" this guy's views.... his reply to this precieved slight demonstrates that he couldn't "pause" either.

Free speech goes both ways hippie.

I guess he (and most on the left) don't realize with whiny "we lost all of our freedom" rants you sound as dumb as Paris Hilton complaining about staying at a Holiday Inn.

So basically, (according to the song) the guy didn't work, treated his wife like crap, she bitched at him all the time, so he left and drank stolen moonshine with some dopes on a mountain, passed out and woke up and realized he was "rolled" and his house gone.

Serves him right.

Yup, pretty much sums up a dopey hippy.

..... and this is supposed to be some thought provoking protest song?

Whatever.

"Overall, this country is a better place than it was in the 60s and 70s and if he (and you) cannot see that, that is not the country's fault - it is your own."

RRD

I would suggest we are a better country today because of the 60's and 70's.

Prior to that era, we were a de-facto apartheid country.
Lynchings were not uncommon of black Americans. Jews were also lynched in the bad old days.

In the 20's the KKK ran some Northern states including Indiana and Ohio. Michigan has some history there, also.

My father remembers, as a child, a cross being burned in their neighbors yard. The neighbors were Catholic.

The 60's were caused by the 50's. You could say the 00's were caused by everything that came before, including the 60's.

***********************

PS to JD,

Yeah, a song about a dopey loser that's down and out. Not at all like the Republican Convention theme song from the 1980 Ronald Reagan coronation:

'Born in the USA'!!
Google the lyrics to that one.

Dennis (and others)

Nothing could tell me more about you than "...we aren't better off than we were in the 60s and 70s."

I have long been convinced that many of the less thoughtful posters feel as you do and want to return to those thrilling days of yesteryear. Let’s think about what that era had to offer:

- The Viet Nam War
- Double Digit Inflation
- The Police Riot at the Democratic National Convention
- Virtually No Minorities in Positions of Power
- Race Riots in Harlem, Watts, Cleveland, Detroit, Newark, and elsewhere
- Explosion of Drug Use

But at least in those days, you had something legitimate to protest and I think a lot of you have just not felt important since then. There is nothing sadder than a liberal longing for the good old days when their party got us into Viet Nam, killed nearly 60,000 Americans and maybe 2 million Vietnamese and accomplished nothing. Oh wait, yes there is – a liberal doing that and then criticizing how the Iraq War has been handled.

C. Morris – your last post showed up as I was writing this one. We are more in agreement than not on this – I read a lot of history and I can tell you no one really wants to go back to a previous era in the long run. Human progress has been continuous and the periodic dips grow shorter with every generation. Plus, I always noted the incongruous choice of “Born In The USA” as a campaign song too.

One last point for Bromberg, Silva and everyone who agreed with them - while I do not accept the notion that US citizens have given up any freedoms under the Bush administration, I would like to answer this challenge:

“The singer asked his audience to think of a democracy that had forfeited its values and then reclaimed them, to cite a government that had robbed its citizens of liberties long promised and then restored them.”

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, ignored a Supreme Court order to end the suspension, and ordered the arrest of public officials and newspaper publishers. FDR interred 70,000 citizens because of their ancestry, attempted to pack the Supreme Court, and ignored the Washingtonian tradition of only two terms in office. We have all our liberties back and I am glad both of them were there in a time of crisis.

RRD

"Yeah, a song about a dopey loser that's down and out. Not at all like the Republican Convention theme song from the 1980 Ronald Reagan coronation"

Dopey loser? How about a 2 term President?

Already know the "boss" lyrics. Go and kill the yellow man etc...

You're right, the GOP shouldn't have used that song, that type of cynisim belongs to the left.

Wish we had some more of them refineries he sings about.

"There is nothing sadder than a liberal longing for the good old days when their party got us into Viet Nam, killed nearly 60,000 Americans and maybe 2 million Vietnamese and accomplished nothing. Oh wait, yes there is – a liberal doing that and then criticizing how the Iraq War has been handled."

RRD,

Liberals did not back Johnson in the war, and turned on him soon after the 1964 escalation of the war, admittedly too late. It's why he didn't run in 68.

It was the liberals/lefties getting beat up at the 68 convention. Not Young Republicans.

Ike, Dulles and Dulles backed the French and Diem in the 50's in Vietnam. A huge mistake. Kennedy compounded it, Johnson expanded it. Blame enough for all parties.

There were liberals and conservatives involved in the architecture of that war.

Many were against the war, but it didn't keep them us from getting draft notices.

Lots of real hard choices then.

RRD
- You read a lot of history? Great! Santayana has a lot to say regarding our current state of affairs.

By the way, re-read your history from any decent source, including anything approved by the Texas Board of Education. Never mind Lynne Cheney's version. Eisenhower and Nixon initiated our foray into Viet Nam. The first "advisors" were on the ground well before Kennedy. Fact! Also, Eisenhower and Nixon's then current staff initiated planning for the Bay of Pigs. Fact! Nixon, himself, brought you the dangerous undercurrents of Watergate. Fact! Both Reagan and Bush Sr had some issues with legality connected with the Mid East. Facts! Look to the public record to find the Bush family business seized in 1942 for laundering Nazi industrialist money during WWII, after we were already at war with THAT Axis of Evil. Fact! Come further forward and explore the intricacies of the Bush Family and Silverado! Fact! You may read a lot of history, but your memory is selective. Why do you protect these people?

"Born in the USA" as a campaign theme is a perversion of the highest order! I'm waiting for the Neo Cons to work over "All You Need Is Love." That'll be some high theater.

I suggest the parallels between the current Mid East problems (esp Iraq) are powerful indeed! Don't you dare tell me, though, you grew up believing in a country which fabricated wars, told blatantly false lies to important international bodies, authorized treatment of prisoners of war adverse to the precepts of the Constitution and the Geneva Convention, and generally treated facts as the facts suit them. The Neo-Cons, to paraphrase Zimmerman are "Masters of Spin."

Go on, keep believing them if you must. It's hard to admit the Truth when you are losing. However, don't come looking to your neighbor for help when these opportunists let you down! Do yourself another favor...quit getting the "truth" from FOX NEWS. FOX NEWS...there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one.

Has anyone here looked at the PNC website?

This is to FOX LIES:

At least I had the decency to give my name.

Pardon me...I meant PNAC.

Here is their website...

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Flame me if you wish.

Terry,
That is my name...you can go back to swiftboating those who oppose anything republican now,see ya round!

Hey, I personally couldn't care less about what some dried-up hippie who probably can't even remember the '60s has to say about the state of the world politics. However, this thread does have some posts by FOX LIES! or FOW LIES! and some of the other posters who make a full-time hobby of bashing Fox News.

What would make a good swamp forum would be if James, Zeleny, et al posted this letter from L. Brent Bozell, president of the media research center:
http://newsbusters.org/node/6630
The letter chides Rob Owen and the rest of the Telvision Critics Association for walking out of Roger Ailes presentation at a recent media junket.

Not only does this prove that walking out of a viewpoint you disagree with IS a form of free speech, but it also shows how small-minded and childish television critics are. Boo hoo, we're going to take our toys and leave if you don't say things we agree with. Explain to me, liberal posters, how that's not intolerance?

Plus, these TV critics were also REPORTERS charged with writing about newsworthy events at an unveiling of new programming. They certainly had more of an obligation to stay than some people who bought tickets to a concert. Read the whole letter, it's great stuff. I'll leave you with the kicker:

"Perhaps your members should familiarize themselves with the standards and ethics of their industry. Only then can they begin to practice what they preach: fair and balanced reporting."

Bill,The evil liberal media strikes again:

FOX NEWS INTERVIEWS GEORGE W.BUSH
Fox News-Mr.President,with no end to the violence in Iraq in sight,why do you still feel victory is at hand?
George W.-Because I feel it in my gut,in other words it's a gut feeling.My gut tells me to trust my heart,and what I know in my heart gives me the spine to put real muscle behind our strategy for victory.
Fox News-Any word from the brain,oh great leader?
George W.-I haven't used that brain thing since I figured out how to blow off my National Guard duty during Vietnam.My head hurt for a long time after that,so I quit using that brain thing.
Fox News-Thankyou,oh great leader,and war hero.

It's all true Bill,check it out if you must
FOW LIES!?!?

Ahh...another Bush hater. No solutions, no answers, just hate Bush.

"Just another Bush hater..."

Even Rumsfeld admits this is a "Long War." I am continually amazed how the Neo Con Bunch continues to think the best solution for this current fix is to pour more gasoline on the fire! You'll believe me when they start up with Iran and with Syria.

George Kennan had an interesting idea for the nation during the Cold War as an effort to maximize the effort against the Soviets without necessarily provoking all out war. The theory is called "Containment." I guarantee you the Soviets were a far more formidible opponent than Iraq, Iran, Syria, and North Korea put together. The Neo Cons are pushing these countries around based on old vendettas, on some notion of unfinished business, for oil, for Isreal, and because they think they can!

Problem is, though, not one of these traitors other Powell has fired a shot in anger...that includes Cheney (he was drunk). If you want a solution to the current mess, I suggest dusting off containment from the Western Sahara to the Philippines. You couple that with a re-affirmation of our charter duties to and for the United Nations. As show of good faith, you ensure that all back dues and agreed financial support is paid. You then embark this country on a true path towards self-generated energy.

By containing the Islamic world and getting off oil, you make that large area of the world irrelevant. This idea make tick off people like Wal Mart and other major US importers; this may tick off people within the Neo Con sphere of thinking (one world...our world), but at least you'll make the world safe for Democracy in a part of the planet that actually tries to practice it.

I hate war
I hate liars
I hate crooks
I hate murderers
I hate con-men
I hate hypocrites
I hate Nazis
I hate fascists
I hate terrorists
Bush is all these and more. I should love him?

To paraphrase Lennon: "It's war if you want it."

Top Ten Fox News crawl headlines!!

10. California Liberal mows lawn in defiance of
soon to come Rapture! (Jesus angry)

9. Social worker, killed by speeding Hummer, to be
charged with malicious vandalism.

8. Environmental rampage on public lands: Some trees are unnecessarily being saved!

7. Idaho passes law outlawing green Subaru
Outbacks.

6. US text book controversy: Is gravity real?

5. Instant Fox Poll:
Is getting a vasectomy mass murder?

4. Conservation is antifamily values...
(Oh sorry, I think this one is real.)

3. Hollywood Jewish conspiracy attacks US values.

2. Hollywood Liberal conspiracy attacks US
values.

The No. 1 Fox News Crawl:

1. Hollywood Jewish/Liberal/Union/Teacher/Satan
conspiracy attacks US values!

Brian,well said.Sounds like RRD could use some of those drugs from the 60's.One point RRD,because I know your a man of facts,of those 60,000 deaths in Viet Nam,more occured under Nixon than Johnson.I also find it interesting that you are concerned over the loss of american soldiers in Nam and the civilian deaths,when your administration mis-lead this country on this current adventure w/2500 soldiers dead,18,000 maimed and thousands of Iraq citizens dead.And for wingers to bring up race relations in america,you could use a hit of ***.
And Reagan took care of inflation,he just replaced it w/ deficits.But like all good wingers,as Prez cheney said,deficits don'matter!

Is it Fow Lies or Fox Lies?

Let me ask you this, did Fox ever not properly vet a story that was based entirely on falsified documents attacking a sitting president? Did Fox ever have to fire any of its producers because of gross incompetency in the reporting of that falsified documents story?

CNN/Gallup reported that Bush's numbers were up to 41% approval a month after Fox did. Was Fox lying then? If so, why have the other networks backtracked and reported the same thing?

Spew all the hate you want, it's obvious what political persuasion you come from, but if you think slinging mud that way is going to sway undecided voters into your camp, you're sorely mistaken.

And you ought to read the story. Why is it okay for some people to walk out of doing their jobs and somehow not okay for others to walk out of a concert they were voluntarily paying to attend? That's my question.

Brian

First, if you want to get to the original set of mistakes in Viet Nam, then you have to look at Truman but neither he nor Ike (and probably not even Kennedy) deserve much of the blame for the debacle that was Viet Nam. LBJ, elected in a landslide by Democrats in 1964 (because Goldwater “was going to start a war”), was the one who changed it from a few advisors to a half a million men. It was also his administration’s mismanagement that made it such a waste of lives and money and it was liberals who elected him. If Iraq continued as it is for fifty more years (which it won’t), it would still not equal the travesty of Viet Nam.

Which brings us to George Santayana and "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Your little tirade about Ike and Viet Nam pretty clearly demonstrates how unclear your memory is about such matters, so I suggest that you are the one who needs to re-read some history. While you are at it, look up “Copperheads” because that is just what you sound like. They didn’t have much use for the Republican party or the “bumpkin” who was its leader at the time either.

While you are dusting off your old history books, you might want to reconsider this part of your rant too, “Problem is, though, not one of these traitors other Powell has fired a shot in anger.” If you want to limit our country’s leadership to those who have stood in combat, then you have to throw out both Clintons, Obama, Feingold, et cetera (not to mention retroactively eliminating FDR and Lincoln). I think the framers of the Constitution knew what they were doing when they decided to make a civilian based government.

Finally, regarding the whole Fox News thing – personally, I do not watch TV news of any kind. Sound bites and 60 second stories are (in my opinion) a big part of why we have so many misinformed people in this country to begin with. However, I hate to break it to you but there were conservatives before Fox News and we knew the truth then, just like we do now.

RRD

PS – From the PNAC Statement of Principles: “a military that is strong and ready to meet both present and future challenges; a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States' global responsibilities.” Man, that is some dangerous thinking!

Brian,

If you really want to lay the blame for getting the U.S. involved in Vietnam at any one politicians' feet I'd suggest you read Robert S. McNamara's book "In Retrospect." McNamara was secretary of defense to Kennedy and LBJ. He takes responsibility for the escalation of the war and also puts a lot of the blame squarely on Johnson in the book.

You think Bush's 41% approval rating is something to be happy about?
Bill-That's an F if you remember any high school classes you might have attended,you probably got one in political science.
Bush's numbers are going back down after "the great one" redeployed troops to Baghdad,you watch for it.I'm sure Fox won't see it that way.
As for your letter from a media flunky trying to suck up to the "mouthpiece of the whitehouse" fox news.I applaud the members of the "real" media who walked out.

Fow lies, I'm not bragging about Bush's 41%, I'm saying Fox reported it before the rest of the media. In this industry that's what's called getting the scoop. I didn't take too many political science courses in college. Unlike you, I wanted to be a productive member of society.

You've missed my point. I don't care if his numbers are up or down. I've just given you an example of how Fox did a good job of scooping the rest of the networks. Whether or not that had anything to do with their bias, I don't know. I just know they got the story first.

Same thing with Dan Rather and his trumped-up documents. The ethics breaches that occurred on that story killed several journalism careers. You can't argue that bias had nothing to do with it.

I hope Danimal enjoys his new, tiny satellite TV audience, too.

Finally, whether or not you applaud the "REAL media" for walking out on Roger Ailes, don't you think they had a job to do in reporting what happened at the network confab? Remember, these are TV critics. They went to a hotel in Florida, reported on all the Fox broadcast network's new shows and FX's cable offerings, but saw fit to walk out on the Fox News presentation.

Fox has some high ratings (whether you say they lie or not). Don't you think these critics newspapers owed it to their readers who are watching Fox News to report what Ailes presented at the junket? Whether they agreed with his politics or not?

I hate to legitimize people like Scanlon by replying to them but you have respond to what is either complete ignorance or complete dishonesty. He says “of those 60,000 deaths in Viet Nam, more occured under Nixon than Johnson.”

According to http://siwmfilm.net/Vietnam_War/Military_Casualty_Information.html of the 58,178 American lives lost in the Viet Nam War, 36,150 occurred before the end of 1968 (the last full year of the Johnson administration). That would be more than half so you are already completely wrong but let’s also be realistic about the time it takes for a new President to fix things. Add the casualties from 1969 and the Johnson total goes up to 47,764. Scanlon, I am not certain if you are still on drugs from the 60’s or just not taking the ones that are prescribed to you now.

As for race relations, how can you possibly not know that the Jim Crow laws were a product of the Democratic party, that Lester Maddox , George Wallace, and the “Southern Bloc” that fought against desegregation were all Democrats? To their credit, Northern Democrats took the lead on civil rights in the 60’s but without Republican Senator Everett Dirksen and the solid support of the Republican party, the 1964 Civil Rights Act would not have become law. More than a third of Democratic Senators opposed the law, less than 18% of Republican Senators voted against it. (http://www.congresslink.org/print_basics_histmats_civilrights64_cloturespeech.htm)

More recently, I can name two black Republican Secretaries of State. Name me the Democrats. For that matter, without Google, name the highest ranking African-American that Bubba appointed. I thought not.

The scary thing about Scanlon (and more than a few others on this board) is not that they do not know the truth. Its that they think they do.

RRD

Why are you so threatened by Fox News C. Morris?

Do you watch enough to be offended or do you not watch at all and guess what they broadcast?

Yeah, they give news from a right wing point of view, but have many left wing guests and commentators give their point of view.

I've seen: Geraldo, C. Schummer, Beckel, Kerry, Sharpton, Colmes, S. Estrich, Ted Rall, M. Moore, Gorafalo, Woopie, Rahm Emanual and many others given a medium to give their point of view.

Even Bill O'reilly takes a liberal stance on things.

Why are you and your cohorts so threatened that all you do is label someone who gives a point of view contrary to your own as a "FOX News mouthpiece."

I watch CNN and don't see other right wingers rip it like you guys rip Fox.

Why can't you just address the issue?

What are you afraid of?

JD,

The Fox Top Ten list was just a light satire.

You think CNN is liberal?

I don't get my news from either. Can't stand the constant screem of the 24 news cycle.

I do watch the silent crawl while on the machine at the gym. You didn't like any of my jibes?

JD.

That was 'scream' of course. Sorry.

How about #1 and #5 as a little bit funny?
Will you give me those two at least?

JD? Anybody?

To clarify my statement; I said I don't get my news from Fox or CNN. That doesn't mean I don't ever watch them.

Hannity makes me want to throw up.