Animal House

Darn....maybe someone else can be "called in"....it just seems we are so close.

I'm sorry to hear about this development.

Re Karin Goin cancelling....I am too upset for words. Is there a chance the people in charge can get Harry Oakes here....I realize he's been blown off by people several times and may not want to hear from us again, but don't know what other chance Vivi has....I realize he's in the Northwest somewhere (Oregon, I think), but if we don't try, we won't know. He may put his anger aside and do it for Vivi.....he is impressive and has so many pets he has found within the last couple of months. Again, what is our money situation?

Help, anyone! The scent we have left of Vivi is old and we so need to act now in any way we can.

I'm with you Irene

I agree with you 1,000% Irene. Please, NY people, see if you can get Rick to consider/reconsider Harry Oakes NOW:

http://www.k9sardog.com/missing.html

Re Karen Goin's cancellation: Karen Goin and her dogs have been a good and loyal friend to Vivi and her family. While the cancellation is disappointing, I sincerely hope and wish for Karen's dogs to recover successfully.

QUESTION to anyone who knows:
There were supposed to be a couple of other "handlers" and a total of 8 search dogs coming in conjunction with Karin Goin, is what I had heard.

Does this mean the whole entourage is not coming?
How about the 2-3 other handlers and the other dogs who I believe could be part of the seminar that Karin is supposed to be attending in Upstate NY?

Couldn't they come without Karin and her dogs?
Better than nothing....Vivi needs to someone who can see if they can pick up her scent and what direction has she gone....she could be right under our noses with pups...

Irene, this may answer some of your questions about Karin: http://petdetectivesinc.com/_wsn/page10.html

Irene,

I would say getting Harry here now is a chance in hell. You have no idea what it took to talk him into coming in the first place and after he agreed we had to tell him no.

JACKIE:
Thanks for the link, but why do you think I had "questions" about Karin? Only question I have is can the other "handlers" and search dogs she was bringing with her come alone?

Hopefully, ALL the search dogs are not sick and perhaps the others could come and help us....that's the only question I have....

I hear you, Gail....sorry, just venting and trying to make sense out of things and guess what can we do next....I know you tried hard to get Harry here. I also realize, even if he wasn't ticked off at us, he's across the country and couldn't come right this minute....can't blame him for feeling as he does. Was hoping he would dismiss the human stupidity and do it for our little whippet....

man you said that well Irene

Irene,

He did dimiss it, we had him all set up, just needed to send plane fare and make housing arrangements. He's really a nice guy but tough and unfortunately you can only tick off people so many times before they throw in the towel. I'm so damn disgusted at this point. We need and SAR person here not a tracking person. The person who convinced Harry to come and myself were all set to come and help him with whatever he needed. Alas, we are back to square one with no direction, no sightings and no idea on what to do next.

GAIL: I hear your frustration and disappointment. Maybe it doesn't really help, but know that we are all very grateful for your hard work and we all feel the same right now.

I so wish that Karin Goin could at least send some people in her place. She had committed to coming and she's not (or was not) that far from here, within a comfortable driving distance.

Thank you so much, Gail, for all of your help.

I realize she is not certified in SAR, but if she could pick up Vivi's scent right now, at least we would know if she's still in that same area or has she tried to move somewhere else. Maybe some of the people at the seminar could still be here in NY State and might try to come down and give their dogs some practice.

I am beginning to grasp at straws and ramble here...sorry, so many emotions and I don't know what to do with them all.

I want to know why - when it seems we have a good plan going and things positive might happen - that something always seems to happen to put a wrench in the middle of it? Yes - I'm frustrated too and just am tired of the disappointments. I want this saga to end on a happy note and soon.

Does anyone know how old the scent was they picked up at the golf course - how old could it be???? This is important to know.

Days vs. weeks.

If I can get an answer to that question - these dogs brought by Laura picked up a scent to be about _____ # of days old.....

These dogs, her dogs, not any other dogs, point at any scent as old after _____ hours or _____ days and do not get scents that are _______days old.

I am looking for a window of time that could help identify how long ago Vivi was at that golf course. Anyone in the know????

KATHY: All I can say is that God isn't finished with us and we have more to learn here....

Well Irene - I have a tiny brain and it is getting full :)

Irene,

I understand how you feel I feel the same way.

If the dogs picked up a scent that is about four days old, then Vivi is not far. My bet is that she is in a place that no one can get to - difficult to hike down or difficult to even see - rugged. And if she is with pups, then she is concentrating on her little ones.

So have faith. Don't despair. But I sure would like to know, how old her scent was at the goft course.........

Sedona,

It wasn't a strong scent thats all I know. Last Vivi was seen was around August 7th I believe so there's a time frame of at least 3 weeks.

But its a techincal question about the dogs, old to us and old to a dog may be different. To post the scent was "old" is rather meaningless - unless we can identify what old means to Vivi and to us.

Some dogs, old is 4 days, but they don't hit on anything like two weeks old. Whatever Laura's dogs usually under these circumstances hit on - maybe only Laura can answer that question or someone who spoke with her.

Hi all,

Regarding the scent near the golf course: Since the dogs were kind of half-hearted about it, could it be that they were mistaken or could it be that it is so old it is useless at this point?

Regarding getting another tracker to replace Karin Goin: Would Laura Totis come again if people decide to try her dogs again and don't want "fresh blood" on the trail?

How about asking Carl Washington. Besides one dog that follows scents, on his website it says that one of his dogs has been trained to locate by sound. Just because they are not "typical" dogs used for this, it doesn't mean they are not good at it. I know he was considered before and then people decided to go with Laura. Does anybody think he should be contacted and invited here? Does anybody think he is not going to be interested because he was not chosen last time?

Regards,
Tara

SEDONA:

Website for Laura Totis shows a contact number which is 410-239-4746. Perhaps you can call her and she will have answers for you.

Since my cell phone died in the dishwater two days ago, and is yet out of commission, I'll e-mail and ask her.

Irene at 2:15, What I was trying to let the website answer was that Karin was teaching, not attending, the seminar. Her dogs are ill. We can only hope they recover quickly. It's quite frightening being away from home with sick dogs, as you can well imagine. The others who attended are probably exhausted from the seminar experience, novice AND there is a possibility they could be contagious with whatever pathogen or virus Karin's dogs have. Even though we can't control everything, it makes sense to NOT have potentially ill animals traveling over Vivi's territory. I am sure this was already thought of by Karin and Rick or whomever is in charge at the moment.

JACKIE:
I realize she was "teaching" the seminar...sorry I used attending instead. She was also attending as she wasn't teaching by video hookup, far as I know!

I do believe that when it is necessary to cancel a commitment due to unforeseen circumstances, everything possible should be done to replace the service we were going to perform. We can hope that will happen soon.

BTW, Jackie, I am very sure Vivi has encountered more sick dogs, viruses and pathogens in her travels for the past six months than any of us even wants to contemplate...I think getting whatever search dogs are available here are sure worth the risk.....Vivi needs help NOW! In my unprofessional opinion, she's in more danger from being out on NYC streets right now than anything search dogs might have been exposed to....search dogs are also up to date with all vaccinations so doubt they have anything really contagious at this point.

At the World Trade Center,Earthquakes, and other disasters it is SAR dogs that are used.I understand that Karin's dogs are not well,but that is all the more reason we have to look elsewhere for help. As far as I'm concerned, she is water under the bridge.We need to move in another direction if we want to find Vivi alive. We CANNOT let Vivi hang out to dry without trying everything available to us. From what I've read on the blog Harry Oakes,if he'd come, is our best bet at this point. Laura has had no success picking up Vivi's scent so why go with her again? Vivi needs someone with fresh ideas and a new approach.

There is only mentioned no scent was picked up around the pond where the last sighting was and possibly a very old sent at the golf course. Does anyone know if Laura's dogs also searched other areas in the park including any of the cemeteries around the park?

AMEN AND THANK YOU, MARGOT!

I am assuming that the foot soldiers are all out and about with Rick since he is here - do we know what is going on and if anything else was planned other than the dogs?

Like all of you, I am feeling very discouraged at this point, although I can't imagine how scary it must be for Karin to have her dogs be sick away from home. I'd love to explore other options. One thing may be that the items we have for Vivi's scent is not the best we could get. Maybe Rick could get something from California that might be better preserved. I feel like we may be missing out on a prime opportunity, particularly if Vivi has puppies and might be less mobile.

Beth: I could be wrong and perhaps I shouldn't say, but I have to believe that Rick would bring with him whatever they have left of her scent. All of the articles left that Vivi had contact with now are close to 7 months old and maybe some of them even more....we don't know the last time Vivi sat on a blanket or was brushed with a particular brush, etc.

I hope I'm wrong and they have other materials, but they are still OLD!

Are we to understand that there is a possibility that all dogs, including Karin's, may have been exposed to some virus or pathogen at that conference, and therfore, are all unable to help in the search for Vivi because they cannot now be exposed to further pathogens? Whew! Did I get that right? Wow. Now that is some odd set of circumstances.

It dosen't say virus but says three of her dogs had a stress related illness... so who knows what that means.

Hey, does anyone know what a "stress related illness" means in a dog? Gosh, I think quite a few humans right here on this blog have the same damn symptoms! hehehe

I don't know about you, Irene, but I am so darned stressed, I could just about spit!

Hey, Terri....Get in line!

look out - I'm throwing spit wads

Seriously, if there is anything wrong with Karin's dogs, my prayers are with them. Let's go with the original post of "stress related illness" and not with all the innuendo mentioned above about pathogens,a contagious virus, and potentially ill animals. I don't think anyone with any amount of intelligence is going to buy that one.

I'm sure I have it, Irene. Miss Vivi has been on my mind more in the past few days. I'm so upset by this latest news about the search dogs. Is there a contingency plan? How about the guy who coordinates the 5 borough animal precincts. Could he be of any help? I know I'm grasping at straws, but I feel that the time to go all out is now.

Just where the hell is Rosa with her chocolate fountain?

Something has to happen to help our Vivi and it would help if some info could be shared with all of us on what Rick and Bonnie are thinking....we love this dog and will do anything we can to help, but we need to be in the loop!

It's raining and really just a nasty chilly mess out there...where is our whippet?

I am still having "Vivi" visions and am conected to her wanderings.

I too wish we could just reach out and "nab" her little butt, but things enfold in the fullness of time. Think, we are one day closer to bringing Vivi home.

I am here until we cross the finish line with Vivi in our arms. So, cheer up all. She is on our radar.

I think maybe Karins dogs are , as it says stressed. They go to lots of places and have a pretty busy life style. Life takes a toll on dogs too. Lauras dogs have scented Vivi before, actually I remember it saying something like... they went nuts! Laura is a perfect person to take this task on , she is trained by the same person or org. as Karin (I believe) . I don't think it should be about why get her agian, at all. This is a huge area and because the dogs didn't pick up Vivis scent doesn't mean they are not doing a good job or Laura had no success, it means what Karins dogs scented at the Airport, not much going on... Vivi is still out there though and will be found... keep the faith . Things have a way of working themselves out ...

here comes a chocolate spit wad

Okay, girls. We've gotta get her before the leaves blow. Today is no surprise. If anyone says it is, you haven't been following, "The Saga of Vivi". Actions speak louder than words. Let's reassemble and do it right. The plan is really very simple. FOLLOW THROUGH!

back at ya, Kathy

S P L A T !!!

I am sorry Karins dogs are ill. Stress related illness in humans is "irritable bowel syndrom" Martha knows it well. :) Yes, Vivi needs help--now and in February and March. Does Vivi know that? You are doing a marvelous job, praying, searching, posting etc.
Now excuse me while I ask a question. Cell phone in the dishwasher? LOL How? if it went thru the dry cycle and still doesn't work um there is little hope. sorry that really struck me funny
It's 6:14 do you know where your cell phone is?

I know Laura and her dogs are good. I'm just so worried and anxious about Vivi, especially if there are pups. Hopefully plans are in place. I'm also in this until Vivi is home with Jil and Rick.

IT'S 6:19 pm EDT...DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE VIVI IS?

TERRI...

AMEN, we need to roll here!

Shoot - after the day I've had, I don't even know where I am

My cell phone fell into the "dishwater" in the sink as I was trying to close the window in the kitchen - the curtain got stuck in the slide and as I hefted the window open, plop the phone slipped from between shoulder and neck and landed in soapy water. But the image of it going through the dishwasher is certainly worth a good "laugh."

The phone hence has died. A new one just arrived and is being charged as I type.

KATHY...Any news on your cat?

Yes, I know where Vivi is.

Oh darn, dishwater, is understandable and not nearly as funny!!! Time to get my glasses changed I guess.

SEDONA;
If that is the case, what the hell are we waiting for? Why are you keeping it a secret....

Well Sedona, would you mind just dropping everything and going to get her.

I have been asked not to blog my visions, and I have been asked to keep them private, except for the foot soldiers.

And if one of you gals would like to come out and baby sit my dogs, I'd be happy to fly out to New York and maybe even bring my big bad boy scent hound with me Moses and see if he can sniff out Vivi in her little haunt.

So, cheer up. I have faith in our foot soldiers. They are smart women with gusto and guts. We couldn't ask for better. Now lets eat some chocolate - I like Godiva Dark Chocolate Ice Cream myself.

Girls, pls don't start taking jabs at people.
We are all extremely dissapointed in today's events
but we must stick together as a team, and not
start picking on each other.

Come on we have been through so much together !!

Keep the prayers rolling girls

Sedona,

Tell us all on the blog. Where is Vivi.

Really, I just NEVER learn! (LOL) I was playing straight man and giving her an audience. Fell right into the trap....will try not to let that happen again, for sure!

Geez, Cynthia/Annie/Linda/Sedona, whatever you are these days, this just is not the time for this. Please give it a rest right now....we are all really hurting, so don't add more stress here.

THANK YOU IRENE

She waits until we're down and then she starts to play with our minds. That's why I have a problem with her.

She is safe and warm and nestled out of the foul weather. She is outside, not inside. And she isn't far away from the area. She is keeping herself comforted and is in a happy little mood. And the rest cannot be posted. Sorry. It just can't for the sake of keeping Vivi safe. And we know that even though we want details, it is for Vivi's safety that she is being protected.

Now I must leave, and no more pressure. As you notice I haven't been blogging much. So this is why. But be comforted that she is around and she is safe and I sense no "ill" or "trouble" except for the angst of the bloggers - not "knowing" drives everyone nuts.

Pax,

Don't take her too seriously... when she was posting as Cynthia Williams for weeks she said Vivi had been caught and was living with a lesbian couple.
Let's keep focusing on ideas to find Vivi.

SEDONA

WHATEVER. YOUR SICK

Sedona, just one question. Are you confident that Vivi is alive? I'd just love to hear what you think. I worry about her constantly. Now I start thinking about the upcoming winter --and I know I should not do that. It just seems like we need to find her now, before she has to endure another winter. I also feel that we should be concentrating on trying to track her now, when she may have puppies and may be less mobile than she usually is. Seems like an opportunity. You know, just like all of you, I would give just about anything to hear that Vivi has been recovered and is safe. I'm not giving up and I know you aren't either. Let's hang in there -- I think she still needs us.

I am being nice to you all. But it seems that what I give or (gave) is not enough. Well, it is the best I can do under the circumstances. And no one is keeping anything away from you except to protect Vivi and believe me it is in her best interests.

But, this is the last time I will attempt to give some comfort. God bless all.

AMEN, MARTY! I've learned my lesson....guess to slip once in a while is human, but I really do know better...

Yea I know Susan. I remember her saying Vivi was smelling tulips. And believe me she hasn't gone anywhere. She sitting right there at her computer laughting because she enjoys this. She plays with the mind when your down and out.

No, I tried to give you comfort but it is rejected. I'm sorry for your pain.

BETH: No one that I know is even remotely thinking of giving up...I do feel, in my heart and for whatever it's worth, that Vivi IS alive. If I didn't have that really deep feeling, I would have to walk away and move on with my life.

The powers that be need to regroup and, as Terri said, FOLLOW THROUGH! Right now, we have no direction because we don't know what the replacement for Karin's expertise will be. I do believe we need Search and Rescue people or, at the least, someone who can follow the scent we have left before it's totally useless.

You have a lot of company with your feelings, but we all started this 6+ months ago, and we will finish it together with someone of us holding a beautiful little Vivi....keep up the prayers that are SO important, please.

SEDONA:
I truly hope you can keep your promise this time. Please don't offer any more "comfort" because all it does is create MORE stress for us and we have more than enough of that...

I promise you that this is the VERY last time I ever answer anything you post....that is MY promise to you forever!

Irene, I'm definitely continuing my daily prayers for Vivi. I'm also faxing off posters to businesses in the area. It just seems like we aren't really confident as to where she is right now! I guess there have been setbacks as well as advances on this long adventure we've all been involved with. The key is to continue, no matter how heartbreaking. I can't imagine how tough this has been on Rick and Jill, and all of you local volunteers. And, of course, on Vivi.

So I say good things and you are miffed? Go figure.......

Like what, you wanted to hear the worst...or the exact location or what? You just wanted to attack me becuase it makes you feel big and strong and powerful. Cheap Shot!

Beth, if Vivi can take it, we, for sure, will and can take it....we will be here till conclusion which I do believe will be a happy one. God DOES hear all of our prayers and they will be answered in HIS good time!

Thank you, Beth, for all that you have done and continue to do...I can't imagine what I would do trying to find a dog in Seattle!

The reality of it is, everyone feel free to jump in there and throw out as many ideas as you can. Who's to say you can't? Don't start with that "she's not your dog" stuff. I'm sure Jil will be happy to get her back in the end, no matter what. I'm going to do everything I possibly can at this point. NOW IS THE TIME! And I am convinced, by observation and trial and error (mostly error), that the best plan will be to FOLLOW THROUGH with one! Prayers are important always, ladies, but we can't just sit on our rears and ask God to do it all for us.

Sedona, poor, dear, Sedona, or Ramona, or Dakota, or Verona, or Azul.... whatever.... the only pain here is you, dear. Now, take your medication, shuffle on back to your padded cell, and twiddle your thumbs for the evening. Good girl.

I see no reason to attack Sedona. She's been a big help in my oppinion. She can not tell us exactly where Vivi is sad to say. No reason to doubt her connection with Vivi. I do like to see her posts without the on going attacks. You can attack me if you like but that's my thoughts. Seems I just get comfortable with readin and this stuff pops up.

We all have out problems and difficulties with Vivi's plight. I can see how one can be a bit aggitated and pick on something to relieve the stress. But all it does is create more. So let's all take a deep breath and let be. Okay
B-J

Hey Girls, cheer up. I have had many dreams
of Vivi this week also, and I am not a psychic
by any means, but I have compared notes with Sedona and I am convinced she is with pups in
a log with a willow tree over her. Pls calm down,
I do not know if my dreams mean anything but I
normally don't dream and t hese dreams are very
vivid, I can even see the colors of Vivi's pups
in my dreams. Pls go easy on everyone, we are
all very stressed from this setback with Karen
but Hang in there blogger buddies, PLEASE

Terri and everyone:
No sightings in past few weeks seems to me the biggest obstacle to overcome. Need to figure out if she's moved to another area...don't know how else to do that except good tracking dogs or a Search and Rescue person such as Harry Oakes. Maybe it would be wise to try and use the scent we have left because it might not be viable much longer...maybe use it while we still can.

Don't know what else to do....the bionic ear can be used if we have a hit with the search dogs. They would be helpful to hear little puppy sounds if someone is within 20 or 30 ft. of where they are (if they exist!).

This has been said over and over, but where else to start right now, I don't know.

Communications ongoing with Harry. He's tough. Now's the time to pray, ladies.

Hey SueG, How many dreams have you had about Vivi? Ruby said she had the same dream. Darlene did say they are willow trees out there. May be worth the foot soldiers looking into it this weekend.

People please stop attacking, the reason Linda does not post is beacuse of this, yes she does mail us privately with her visions, and believe it or not she does know what she is talking about. We know beacuse we have been on foot all this time looking, keep an open mind as to what she is saying, the litle white dog, red brick building with cyclone fence baby blanket have all been found right where she said they would be. We are beyond fustration at this point nothing seems to be going our way and it sucks big time, whenever we get help it falls thru and we are at our wits end, we have no idea if she is alive or not and don't know where to begin. We get nothing done at work wondering where to go and what to do, who can help us. We have walked thousands of miles and cannot get ahead of her. What do we do now? Any ideas?

Terri, gonna light a candle that Harry has a change of heart and